IGD: Padres @ Cubs (15 May 08)
Thu, May 15, 2008
by Geoff Young
Padres (15-26) @ Cubs (24-16)
Greg Maddux vs Ryan Dempster
11:20 a.m. PT
no television
AM 1090, FM 105.7, XM 183
MLB, B-R
The Padres showed some good fight at the end of Wednesday evening’s game. Unfortunately they spent much of the early part digging themselves into a deep, dark hole. Still, I liked the matchup of Brian Giles against Kerry Wood with the bases juiced in the ninth. Too bad it didn’t work out for us this time. Oh well, we turn the page…
* * *
The Cubs have signed Jim Edmonds and he will be in uniform for Thursday’s game. He looks as done as anyone this side of David Wells, but maybe it was just a matter of coming back from injury too soon. With the Padres’ luck, Edmonds will return to 2004 form and cause us all to second guess our second guessing…
Picking up where last year's version left off, the Ducksnorts 2008 Baseball Annual provides in-depth analysis of and commentary on the San Diego Padres. Get your copy today.
May 15, 2008 at 7:45 am
Nothing at all wrong with a split against the red hot Cubbies. I like the way this team has been swinging the bats lately —I’ll be watching this game, cheering when good things happen and complaining on the Ducksnorts Blog if things unravel.
May 15, 2008 at 8:04 am
Can anyone else think of a reason that Luke Carlin shouldn’t be getting the majority of starts right now? Bard seems really burned out to me. I didn’t see the pitch that K’ed Lilly but got by Bard, but was it catchable? Would Carlin have gotten it?
May 15, 2008 at 8:16 am
#2@Phantom: Crucial play in the game too. Cost the Padres 3 runs. Bob Brenly (the Cubs TV guy and former ML catcher) said that Bard should have had it, commenting that Bard’s effort to stop it was “lackadaisical”
May 15, 2008 at 8:18 am
#3@JP: Interesting that even the Cubs announcer would hang it on Bard like that. I’ve been incredibly impressed with Carlin and would love to see him get the majority of the starts for a while. It’s not like Bard is setting the world on fire with his bat right now.
May 15, 2008 at 8:35 am
Whats with all the trade Maddox rumors? Who would replace him in the rotation. Estes had a nice start but can he be consistent. The pitching staff is the one area thats working for the Pads, to trade Mad Dog would hurt our chances even more then the slow start.
May 15, 2008 at 8:39 am
I had the good luck to be at the game last night at Wrigley. My hands are still numb this morning from the cold but - putting aside that the Padres came up on the short end - it was an entertaning game.
As mentioned in earlier comments the Bard mishap was the key play of the game but I was wondering what people thought about Black’s decision to pinch hit for Peavy in the top of the 5th. Seemed a dubious decision to me at the time, for one because Peavy was only at 83 pitches (and had pretty good stuff other than a few mistakes to Soriano and Fukudome), and also because, as was borne out, the Padres didn’t have the group of relievers capable of holding the Cubs scoreless over the five remaining innings.
What did others think?
May 15, 2008 at 8:39 am
#5@PM: I believe Maddux trade value is at a “local maximum” … in other words, my guess for the thinking behind the trade rumors (which doesn’t necessarily mean it’s what the Padres are thinking) is that Maddux is worth a decent prospect now … but is at risk for putting up a few bummer starts which would reduce his percieved trade value … so the “conventional wisdom” (from folks who don’t care about “human factors” nor about what state it leaves the Padres team in) would be to “trade him now” …
In this case, I’m inclined to go along with this line of thinking … assuming they can get a “prospect” in return that will play for the Padres in 2009 …
May 15, 2008 at 8:39 am
#5@PM: I think the rumors are coming from the Braves and Cubs more than the Pads. If the Pads continue to be 10 games out at the ASB both of those teams prob think that they will be able to get him on the cheap.
May 15, 2008 at 8:41 am
#6@Ryan: I’ve chastised Bud for staying with his starters too long … so I’m not going to put him into a “can’t win” situation …
I was not watching nor following the game real-time last night … perhaps the cold weather factored into the decision also …
May 15, 2008 at 8:42 am
#8@Steve C: Either that or KT is making it look that way … trying to get the Cubs and Braves to bid up Maddux’ trade value
May 15, 2008 at 8:43 am
#6@Ryan: I wasn’t able to see the game last night, so I can’t speak to Peavy’s stuff. I think taking him out there isn’t the worst decision in the world as Ledezma has in general pitched fairly well.
As others have noted, it appears that the pitch to Lilly pretty much changed the entire game. So it was a makeable play?
May 15, 2008 at 8:48 am
#10@LynchMob: I dont know if they trade Maddux at this point then we know that they have given up on the season. The would have a rotation of Peavy, Young, Wolf, Estes and Germano.
May 15, 2008 at 9:04 am
#5@PM: Trading Maddux is the white flag going up on the season. Who you replace him with is not nearly, as important as the prospect you get in return.
May 15, 2008 at 9:04 am
Another Hayhurst diary:
http://tinyurl.com/6g8at3
May 15, 2008 at 9:17 am
10.5 out and the worst record in the majors. Padres don’t seem that bad lately, but the numbers don’t lie. Maybe trading Maddox is a good move if out standing doesn’t improve by June 1st.
Didn’t see the Bard play but if his hitting is a none factor (I think it is) and the other guy can throw out guys, seems a no brainer. I recall Bochy always playing the team he thought he could win with. Black seems to have another agenda at times.
Edmunds and Petco are a bad match. He might enjoy Wrigly a wee bit more. I know he’s enjoying that 4 million we are paying him.
May 15, 2008 at 9:26 am
That is $153,846 a paycheck, BTW, plus what the Cubs are paying.
I feel small and insignificant at this moment.
May 15, 2008 at 9:28 am
#3@JP: I could care less what Bob Brenly has to say about anything.
May 15, 2008 at 9:54 am
Dirk Hayhurst has another diary up at Baseball America Dot Com.
May 15, 2008 at 9:56 am
#18@Tom Waits: can you post the link tom?
May 15, 2008 at 9:58 am
#19@Steve C: I tried. Even as a tinyurl, the filter ate it.
It’s right on the front page, titled “Working 9 to 5.”
May 15, 2008 at 10:02 am
#20@Tom Waits: Thanks for the heads-up, got it! (See #14.)
May 15, 2008 at 10:02 am
#18@Steve C: n/m I found it:
http://www.baseballamerica.com.....66115.html
May 15, 2008 at 10:25 am
#4@Phantom: Peavy was wild last nite. Don’t just blame Bard. I still don’t understand why the Pads don’t bring up Hundley instead of Carlin and Morton.
May 15, 2008 at 10:26 am
#20@Tom Waits: Wow TW GY’s spam filter must have your IP adress flagged or somthing.
May 15, 2008 at 10:28 am
#21@Geoff Young: Good lord. I can so completely sympathize with the Black Friday madness. After having worked in MiLB for about a month and a half now, I definitely can give voice to how little those guys make and how much they appreciate the little gestures like passing the hat.
May 15, 2008 at 10:34 am
#24@Steve C: The thing gets wonky every now and then. I know this isn’t what you were saying, but just to be crystal clear, it’s never anything personal. Continue to let me know when stuff gets eaten and I’ll restore the missing comments asap. Thanks!
#25@Phantom: It’s kind of insane. Always drop something in the hat, seriously.
May 15, 2008 at 10:44 am
#16@PM: PM, it’s my understanding that in situations like Edmonds’, teams like the Cubs will pay him major-league-minimum, and that ammount will be deducted from what the Padres owe him, by contract. Anyone know for sure?
Here’s a view of the Edmonds signing and how they expect to use him from the Cubs POV …
http://tinyurl.com/4zkzqz
… part time player who has to earn a job? Why didn’t the Padres think of that? (j/k)
May 15, 2008 at 10:48 am
#26@Geoff Young: Oh no, THIS TIME IT’S PERSONAL!
May 15, 2008 at 10:50 am
#28@Tom Waits: Oh yeah, I meant except in your case.
May 15, 2008 at 10:55 am
#9@LynchMob: Why not? You can chastise him for pulling a guy at 4 as well as leaving someone in through 6.2. There is a happy median, its called 5 or 6. You dont pull your ace when he had a bit of bad luck and had the only hit in the game and struck out 8 through 4 innings. Have him lay a bunt down with no outs if you want, but let him pitch at least 5. His start wasnt that bad.
May 15, 2008 at 10:58 am
#11@Phantom: You can watch the play on mlb.com i think, its hard to tell if it was a makable play it looked like a very hard biting slider in the dirt that bounced away from him. i dont know if it was lackadaisical or if it was even makable.
May 15, 2008 at 11:03 am
#23@Geoff B:
Because they want Hundley to play everyday and get better. He isn’t likely to do either of those here.
May 15, 2008 at 11:11 am
#30@SDSUBaseball: Ledezma had been throwing well recently, and while Jake has looked good at the plate this year, he’s never going to hit as well as almost any position player. Down 4-0, that’s a good decision. It just didn’t work out. Jake gave up 7 hits. He wasn’t only unlucky.
May 15, 2008 at 11:27 am
And here we go with the getaway-day swings.
May 15, 2008 at 11:30 am
Interesting…Soriano gets an off-speed pitch, breaking back over the plate to start the game and he still gets a solid, up the middle base hit…really, how do you pitch this guy?
And nice Ham-n-Eggs infield.
May 15, 2008 at 11:31 am
What was that, 4 pitches?
Nice work Mad Dog
May 15, 2008 at 11:32 am
A four pitch inning for Maddux. nice
May 15, 2008 at 11:32 am
#27@LynchMob: Apparently he didnt have to earn his job. He is starting today
May 15, 2008 at 11:37 am
#33@Tom Waits: No its not a good decision. Not in the 4th inning. Ledezma had been throwing well but the cubs line-up eats up lefties. I dont see anything right about that decision. He gave up 7 hits, but he also struck out 8. You have to have more confidence in your ace than that. In my opinion it was just another poor decision by bud this year. If peavy bunts, thats a more productive out than Edgar made. If your going to pinch hit for Jake at least pinch hit with a better hitter than Jake.
May 15, 2008 at 11:37 am
I wanted to listen to some of the game on the radio, during lunch. It might be over by then.
May 15, 2008 at 11:38 am
16 pitches through 2 innings for Dempster.
May 15, 2008 at 11:42 am
“Ace” is just a word that doesn’t reflect how a pitcher is throwing on any one night. Jake had been struggling all night with his command. He’d already thrown 87 pitches. Minimizing a scoring opportunity when you’re down 4 on the road would be bad. All to get 1 more inning out of him? Why not “you’ve got to have more confidence in your bullpen than that?” Makes just as much sense.
The hypothetical Peavy bunt wouldn’t have done anything. Both Bard and Huber scored anyway.
If Gonzalez hits a HR, which he’s far more likely to do than Jake, we’re within one run. If he gets on, which he’s also more likely to do, we might have come out of that inning tied or ahead.
If you really think that Jake is a better hitter than Edgar Gonzalez, then we should just stop talking about this.
May 15, 2008 at 11:42 am
Nice strategy on the Wild Pitch for Maddux.
May 15, 2008 at 11:44 am
I will take a WP bounce like that.
Edmonds wrapping a single in his first AB as a Cub…gotta love/hate it. I hope Maddux picks him off.
May 15, 2008 at 11:45 am
#43@Phantom: I figured something odd was happening, since GameDay was idle for so long.
May 15, 2008 at 11:46 am
Are any of you hearing the story about Maddux warming up?
When he warms up, he often throws 10 or 15 pitches against a side wall, trying to make them bounce back to the catcher as a strike…it is not challenging enough to just throw normal strikes, he has to practice bouncing them off the wall too.
May 15, 2008 at 11:49 am
GERUT WITH THE CATCH!!!
Edmonds circa 2001 makes that grab too…Edmonds circa April 2008 does not and the Pads fall behind.
May 15, 2008 at 11:51 am
#47@Coronado Mike: Precisely
May 15, 2008 at 11:52 am
#39@SDSUBaseball: c’mon - Peavy is not as good a hitter as the position player Gonzalez ?
May 15, 2008 at 11:56 am
#42@Tom Waits: Ya lets stop talking about it because obviously neither of us will agree and it seems to often play devils advocate with anything I say haha. I dont think it was the right decision and there are too many “if’s” going on.
May 15, 2008 at 11:57 am
Nice play Kouz!
May 15, 2008 at 11:57 am
Another nice play Kouz!
May 15, 2008 at 11:59 am
#49@JP: I was reaching there. No Jake isnt as good a hitter. he has developed into a good hitting pitcher. I just think if its that important to PH for him there, do it with a better hitter than Edgar.
May 15, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Did Maddux skip Young in the rotation?
May 15, 2008 at 12:02 pm
#54@Kevin: They did that a few weeks ago and it has stayed like that since.
May 15, 2008 at 12:02 pm
#54@Kevin: A long time ago, I think.
May 15, 2008 at 12:03 pm
#53@SDSUBaseball: Like who, versus a LHP? Hairston and Huber were already in the game. Clark doesn’t hit LHP very well and is a huge DP threat. The only other options were a left-handed hitter like McAnulty or Gerut or Carlin, and nobody burns their backup catcher in the 4th.
Probably the other option is Clark, and Gonzalez has been swinging better than him recently.
May 15, 2008 at 12:03 pm
From Elias Sports Bureau:
Edgar Gonzalez made his major-league debut for the Padres on Tuesday night, starting at third base, across the diamond from his brother, Adrian. Over the last 30 years, only three other pairs of brothers started in the same infield: Cal and Billy Ripken (439 times, 1987-1996 Orioles), Aaron and Bret Boone (47 times, 1997-1998 Reds), and Barry and Stephen Larkin (once, for the Reds, on Sept. 27, 1998).
May 15, 2008 at 12:04 pm
I love watching the padres hitters watch strike three…just something so heart warming about their appreciation for pretty pitches.
May 15, 2008 at 12:06 pm
#59@Coronado Mike: Giles seems to enjoy it the most. He must really see the art in a called strike.
May 15, 2008 at 12:06 pm
#58@Kevin: There is something so cool about brothers starting together on the same team. My brother and I each played different sports (me volleyball and baseball…him football and basketball), but I can imagine it would be a really neat feeling.
May 15, 2008 at 12:08 pm
From MLBtraderumors…
“One anonymous executive says that the Padres are a good candidate to start selling off pieces, sooner rather than later.”
Maybe there is some fire to the smoke surrouning the maddux trade rumors…
May 15, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I’ve got the game on DirecTV, but I guess that’s not what you guys were talking about when you said it’s not on TV.
May 15, 2008 at 12:10 pm
#57@Tom Waits: If your gonna pitch Ledezma against a line-up the feasts on LHP, then why not pinch hit a lefty? I forgot Huber was in the game, but if you dont really have a that hitter coming off the bench (I dont think Edgar is that hitter), then I dont see the point in PH after 4 innings. I guess thats fine if you see it as a good decision, but there is a difference between understanding why it was done and thinking that it was a good decision.
May 15, 2008 at 12:12 pm
6-4-3
Best digits ever.
May 15, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Nice DP to get out of the inning.
May 15, 2008 at 12:13 pm
There you go Jimmy way to earn that 4+ mil the Pads are still paying you!
May 15, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I love this from Hayhurst!!!
“There is no shame in a man working. Yet it seems as if the work a man chooses will dictate how he is treated…. It’s amazing the things people assume based on job title. I am, after all, the same garden variety, run-of-the-mill human being, regardless of my costume or who signs my paycheck.”
That is beautiful!
May 15, 2008 at 12:16 pm
#64@SDSUBaseball: You can only measure a decision by what the manager knew at the time, not what happened after. Ledezma has been throwing well and he was the best option in the pen to go 3-4 innings. He got hit. It happens. Jake had given up 4 himself by that point. Sometimes a good decision doesn’t work out. Sometimes a bad decision doesn’t hurt you.
Why would you pinch-hit a player like Gerut or McAnulty? Both have exactly 1 at-bat in the majors this year versus a lefty. Gerut didn’t hit them well in AAA; Gonzalez crushed them.
May 15, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Isn’t it time for Kouz to hit a bomb? He is due.
Maybe later today.
May 15, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Is that Kouzmanoff putting up the first fight of the day? And I jinx him.
May 15, 2008 at 12:25 pm
#69@Tom Waits: That doesnt mean it was a good decision. I understand why he thought he did it, I dont think it was the right choice. We saw bad decisions not hurt Black all year last year. They are starting to hurt this year and I think this was one of them. I wasnt measuring it by what happened after. I was unhappy when he made the decision and the events that followed happened as they did. I was fine with keeping Ledezma ready, and obviously he is really your only option out of the pen, but Jake looked like he could go another inning, and then you can distribute one less inning to your relievers and you can pitch your better relievers. Its over now though, we lost. i didnt agree with it, you did. Doesnt really matter now.
May 15, 2008 at 12:25 pm
A RBI knock for the pitcher…quality.
May 15, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Maddux up in the zone all inning.
When the Cubs come to town, let’s try throwing a first-pitch to Soriano that is well out of the zone.
May 15, 2008 at 12:27 pm
CHICAGO — San Diego Padres pitcher Mark Prior was in Birmingham, Ala., on Thursday to have his surgically repaired right shoulder examined by Dr. James Andrews.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3397861
May 15, 2008 at 12:28 pm
#72@SDSUBaseball: Well, if you’re basing it on “send up a better hitter than Gonzalez,” but there weren’t any, then what’s the criticism?
May 15, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Here come the wheels off the bus.
May 15, 2008 at 12:30 pm
#76@Tom Waits: Not to pinch hit Jake in the first place.
May 15, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Boy, wheels are coming off in a hurry.
May 15, 2008 at 12:30 pm
****…we are now 4 runs down.
that is okay…we can still come back.
May 15, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Holy Cow, look at that sombrero!
May 15, 2008 at 12:32 pm
When it goes, it goes quickly.
Way to wait for us to be down 4 before making a move, Bud!
May 15, 2008 at 12:34 pm
#82@Phantom: No no no. You’ve got to have more confidence in your 350 game winning 1st ballot hall of famer than that.
May 15, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Henn in, about to get real ugly I bet.
May 15, 2008 at 12:36 pm
#83@Tom Waits: Not the way he’s been hit today. After 3 straight singles, there’s no reason for him to be pitching to Lee with men on 1st and 2nd if we’re down by 2.
May 15, 2008 at 12:37 pm
#83@Tom Waits: Ha ha ha… funny
May 15, 2008 at 12:37 pm
85: No reason to think he couldn’t have thrown another double play…
May 15, 2008 at 12:38 pm
#85@Phantom: D’oh, sorry I couldn’t perceive the sarcasm.
May 15, 2008 at 12:38 pm
#85@Phantom: He was being sarcastic
May 15, 2008 at 12:39 pm
88: he had only thrown 60 pitches at the start of that at-bat.
May 15, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Geez, Maddux wasn’t exactly fooling them today. That’ll lower his trade value in a hurry.
I didn’t realize Dempster was doing so good this year. 30 hits allowed in 54 IP. Wow. That’s amazing. I doubt we stand much of a chance to come back on this guy.
May 15, 2008 at 12:45 pm
There were four straight singles, then a sac fly, then the double by Lee. Maddux shouldn’t have pitched to Theriot.
May 15, 2008 at 12:45 pm
So Dempster looks like he has enjoyed being converted from closer to starter this year…
May 15, 2008 at 12:47 pm
#90@Marsh: That’s like the 80-pitch mark for anyone else.
May 15, 2008 at 12:48 pm
A little OT, but thought interesting…did y’all see Jason Stark’s comments today?
• EYES ON SAN DIEGO: Here’s one AL executive’s nomination for a club that could go into early selling mode: The Padres. “The vibes we’re getting is that they already know it’s not happening for them this year,” the exec said. “So they may be the first team that tries to be opportunistic.” Among the Padres the shoppers figure to keep their eye on: Khalil Greene, Kevin Kouzmanoff (to open third base for Chase Headley), Randy Wolf and any bullpen arms the Padres would talk about.
May 15, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Comment of the day by the cubs broadcasters…
“Dempster did not fall over running down the line, he just started his dive way too soon.”
May 15, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Nothing like having the first runner in scoring position showing up in the 7th inning.
May 15, 2008 at 1:00 pm
#95@Coronado Mike: Wouldn’t surprise me. Timing is the hard part. Wolf may need to rebuild some value, Greene is not looking too attractive, Kouz has done nothing this year to inspire desire by other teams. Even Maddux, with his resume, is not necessarily going to jump off the lot for what we want for him.
May 15, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Tom…I am a big fan of Kouz, but his power outage is very discouraging. I think, as you point out, the biggest problem is not whether or not we should move them, but rather what is the value? Not much right now seems to be the correct answer.
May 15, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Slider down and away…KG K’s…shocker.
And Phil Donahue singing during the 7th inning stretch…really? They are hurting for “celebrities”.
May 15, 2008 at 1:05 pm
#95@Coronado Mike: Here are the three guys with decent trade value that I think the Padres would deal if the right offer was on the table: Kevin Kouzmanoff, Khalil Greene, and Chris Young. Gonzalez, Peavy, and Bell obviously have the most value, but they’re all staying put, in my opinion. Here’s my analysis, if anyone cares.
http://www.sdpadrefan.com/trad.....part1.html
Wolf and Maddux are back of the rotation starters. I don’t think we would get much for them. Remember, the Cubs traded Maddux for Cesar Itzuris. And that was two years ago. I wouldn’t expect much in return from either guy. Giles is another guy that teams would look at, but that $3 million dollar buyout makes him less desirable. Tad Iguchi would bring back two fringe prospects. Anyone else I’m missing?
May 15, 2008 at 1:11 pm
JMAR…probably not anyone. Maybe P-Mac for a fringe minor leaguer…
Could you imagine the way this team would look w/o Kouz, KG, CY, and Maddux? Would be like the early 90’s all over again…well, probably not that bad, but for the casual fan it might be.
Count me as one that thinks it is the wrong move to put Headley in the OF…either move him to another team or move Kouz…decreasing the value of your best prospect by moving him to LF makes no sense to me.
May 15, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Wow, where did that ball four pitch to fuku miss? Outside? A little low?
At least we have Jimmy Edmonds coming up…how about a nice 4′6′3 DP?
May 15, 2008 at 1:13 pm
#100@Coronado Mike: CM, he went from 0-2 to a full-count and fouled off a few pitches. Why don’t you get all over Adrian for waving at sliders?
May 15, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Phantom - Cause he does not do it with the frequency of KG and does not make the amount of outs KG does.
May 15, 2008 at 1:14 pm
So, at what point do the Pads bring Headley up and send P-Mac back to Portland? (or Huber?) Does his BA have to dip below .200? .185?
May 15, 2008 at 1:15 pm
#105@Coronado Mike: But what’s the point in relishing his K there? That was a damn good AB from him. To get down early 0-2 and make Dempster throw as many pitches as he did is helpful. It’s not like Khalil is the only person to fail at the plate today against Dempster. We’ve got a couple guys that have K’ed against him twice today, and Khalil only K’ed once.
May 15, 2008 at 1:17 pm
#107@Phantom: I am not arguing with you on that…I am just saying it is fairly predictable that he would flail at a slider down and away…
Why any pitcher would throw ANY pitch middle in to KG baffles me.