Spring Training Notes (19 Feb 08)
Tue, Feb 19, 2008
by Geoff Young
I kind of run on autopilot around here sometimes and forget to ask y’all what you want. Let me know if there’s anything specific you’d like me to focus on this spring or whatever. I’m open to suggestions, but if I don’t hear anything, I’ll just assume all is well and keep doing whatever the heck it is I do around here.
Meanwhile, back to our February optimism:
- Jim Edmonds underwent an insane workout regimen this past off-season (hat tip to Coronado Mike). Quoth personal trainer Jim Moss, a member of the Los Angeles County SWAT team:
I told him that just because we’re 38 doesn’t mean we’re over the hill. We’ve got a lot to offer. … Most guys half his age quit, but his motivation level was unbelievable. He’s a special case as far as I’m concerned.
We’ll see whether motivation translates into results. At the very least, he and workout fanatic Trevor Hoffman should get along just fine.
- Speaking of Trevor, he’s fired up and ready to go. He’s even toying with the idea of returning to a windup, something he hasn’t used since at least 1995 (hat tip to Oside Jon).
- We’ve talked about Khalil Greene ad nauseum, but it seems that rumors of his desire to leave San Diego were unfounded. Quoth Greene:
There is nowhere else I’d really rather play than San Diego.
Yeah, that’s kind of unambiguous. Novel that someone went straight to the source to find out what the guy is thinking rather than trying to read between the lines.
- Looks like the Padres will carry 12 pitchers again this year. This puts extra pressure on bench players, who will be asked to do a lot — perhaps too much. So, yeah, talk about Tony Clark seeing time in the outfield probably is legit.
- Speaking of Clark, he’s drawing praise for his attitude. Heh, I almost said “altitude.”
- Paul McAnulty is another guy fighting for a bench job (hat tip to Baseball in Fort Wayne). It’d be nice to see P-Mac get his career in gear — if not in San Diego, then somewhere else. I love his mindset:
I’m not trying to make the team as a pinch-hitter. My goal is to become a starter.
Get me more guys like that, please.
- Meanwhile, the back-end of the rotation remains
a complete messup for grabs. Maybe 12 pitchers isn’t such bad thing. Yeah, I don’t really buy that either. We’re being optimistic, remember? - Continuing the “feel good” theme, Mark Prior threw 31 pitches off a mound on Saturday. According to Corey Brock’s article, Prior “felt pretty comfortable and was able to focus on spots instead of mechanics and arm.”
- Speaking of Prior’s mechanics, Rain Delay tipped us to an interesting breakdown (pun only somewhat intended) of the right-hander’s delivery.
- Wait, we’re not done talking about Prior just yet.
- Darren Balsley talks about his pitchers, including the obligatory “new or improved pitch” items for Justin Germano, Jake Peavy, and Chris Young.
- The Padres were impressed enough with manager Bud Black’s rookie campaign in 2007 that they’re now seeking to lock him up long term.
- This isn’t specifically spring training related, but the MadFriars have chatted with Kevin Goldstein about the Padres’ farm system. Goldstein on the team’s top two prospects, Matt Antonelli and Chase Headley:
I was pretty surprised by both of them, but Antonelli’s overall game was more surprising. Before, I thought he kind of looked like a one-trick pony, you know someone that could just get on base, but this year he took a huge jump to a guy that could play second, get on base, run and smack the ball around the park.
There are people out there that will tell you they always thought Headley would start to hit for power but I don’t think anyone thought he would put together the season that he did.
Good stuff.
Also, we’re doing an informal meetup type thing this Friday at Tony Gwynn Stadium for the SDSU/USD game. Reader Ian C. informs us that you can buy tickets in advance at Qualcomm Stadium Gate E. First pitch is 6 p.m. Friday, so let’s meet at the ticket office at 5:40. See you there!
Picking up where last year's version left off, the Ducksnorts 2008 Baseball Annual provides in-depth analysis of and commentary on the San Diego Padres. Get your copy today.
February 19, 2008 at 7:44 am
Is it a Friday with all those links? lol not complaining, just sayin’
The thing about Prior’s mechanics was interesting, but I’m more inclined to go with every single scout who said his mechanics were very, very good.
I wonder if his continuing shoulder issues were really 1 issue all along that never got taken care of because the Cubs never sent him for an exploratory surgery….until last year.
Time will tell, but 1 shoulder injury does not necessarily ruin a pitcher…plus it may have finally gotten fixed a la Schilling in 1995.
February 19, 2008 at 7:44 am
Everything is great GY just keep on keeping on!
February 19, 2008 at 8:28 am
KG elaborates a little more on his desire to stay in San Diego: http://www.signonsandiego.com/.....adres.html
The farm system is apparently flush with pitching. How many of them are MLB-ready though? http://www.signonsandiego.com/.....notes.html
February 19, 2008 at 8:38 am
1: I’ve read a lot of Chris O’Leary’s analysis and it’s always seemed spot on to me, especially his contention that when the pitching arm elbow is above the shoulder it causes a lot of stress. Personally I never bought the stories that Prior had perfect mechanics, it seemed like a lot of hype to get people excited about a stud prospect. Guys like Greg Maddux, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, these are guys with perfect mechanics.
Obviously there’s a lot of disagreement when it comes to mechanics but Mike Marshall is another guy who was saying Prior had lousy mechanics and would end up injured. Then again, Marshall says that about everyone… Wasn’t Will Carroll one of the guys who said Prior had “perfect” mechanics, and blamed his injuries on overuse?
I really hope Prior can bounce back and at least be productive for us. If nothing else it’ll be fun to see the Cubs fans claim that their favorite whipping boy was faking the injury so he could get out of Chicago.
February 19, 2008 at 8:55 am
OT … I’ve got a mystery … when was this picture taken?
http://shop.mlb.com/sm-topps-1.....20503.html
… this is the 83T Tony Gwynn card … and the mystery is that he’s not wearing #19??? It sure looks like Tony …
A guy at uniwatchblog.com yesterday pointed to this web site …
http://www.baseball-almanac.co.....=gwynnto01
… which indicates Tony wore #19 even in 1982 … so … when was this pic taken? I’m guessing Tony did not wear #19 during his playing time with the Padres in 1982 … unless the pic is from spring training or some other exhibition?
February 19, 2008 at 8:55 am
Tony Clark in left field. Will he wear his batting helmet out there ?
February 19, 2008 at 8:57 am
3: The farm system is only “relatively” flush with pitching. Our minor league pitching isn’t as deep as it was in 2001, and of all the hot kids from back then only Peavy and Ollie have done anything. They’ve done a lot, but Tankersley, Howard, Cyr, Serrano, and Herndon flopped.
I wonder if Fuson was smiling when he talked about how hard it might be to find innings for some guys. Portland should have Geer, who hopefully will start striking people out, maybe LeBlanc if they jump him after only 1/3 season in AA, maybe a rehabbing Carrillo later in the season, Germano if he makes it through waivers (probably not). There’s still plenty of room for the Roger Deagos and Tim Stauffers and Glendon Ruschs.
Many Padre minor league pitchers, especially the guys at the higher levels, have fairly low trade values because they have borderline stuff.
February 19, 2008 at 9:01 am
I was shot down on this blog last week (some wrote “not a chance Clark will play in the outfield” ) when I mentioned the idea of Tony playing left field. But really, why add a Tony Clark and not expect him to play the outfield ?
I must admit, I am a bit flabbergasted that the Pads did not add a veteran outfielder in this potpourri of second rate and untested in house candidates for the outfield.
February 19, 2008 at 9:06 am
4: While I can understand how the elbow going above the shoulder could cause problems, I don’t buy his real-world examples completely. Plumbers, pipe-fitters, etc., those people are placing far greater loads on their shoulder regardless of elbow position than the general population. It’s like saying a construction worker has a much greater chance of cutting himself with a saw than an office worker.
5: That has to be a spring training pic, my guess is from 82. You wouldn’t think they’d hang him with a number in the 50s in ST 83 after he played 54 games with the big club in 82.
6: He needs to wear one of those K-9 unit training suits.
February 19, 2008 at 9:09 am
8: I’ll stand by my guns. I don’t think there’s much chance he ever plays the outfield unless the game goes deep into extra innings. They can say whatever they want now, the test is when the games count. I bet he plays fewer than 10 innings in the OF. You want the over?
You add a Tony Clark for his bat. He’s an older player with near-zero experience out there and a history of injuries.
February 19, 2008 at 9:13 am
8 … but it is a plethora of second rate and untested in-house candidates for the OF, right Didi
It’s clearly a weakness on the team … the most glaring being who will play CF when Edmonds can not?
GY … here’s a topic idea … perhaps it would have been better for the middle of the off-season … but better late than never … “what if?” … it sure seems like the Padres have been “close” the past couple of seasons … what if they had made a “go for it” move?
I contend that they have been in a position to make a “go for it” more … but haven’t seen the right move to make … ie. the right FA hasn’t been available (more than hasn’t been affordable). I have a good friend, whose baseball opinions I respect the utmost, who challenged me with this … and I challenged him to name the FA they passed up … he played the Carlos Lee card … he thinks if they had signed Carlos Lee to play LF, they would have gone to the WS in 2007 … hmmm … that sounds reasonable …
I know the “can of worms” here is “commitment to winning a World Series” versus “commitment to long-term profitability” … is the Padres ownership content with “long-term profitability”? Perhaps … and perhaps I’m one of the fans content with that also … knowing that this puts the team in position for things to fall into place every once in a while … without risking getting the franchise into the deep mess that it’s been in plenty of times in its young past … and such as the Giants are in today …
February 19, 2008 at 9:18 am
9b … I think the 83T cards are printed well before spring training of 1983 … so the pic has to be from 1982 … could it be from spring training of 1982? The background has an MLB-look to it, imo …
I’ve sent an email to the baseball-almanac.com folks asking for their source for 1982 Padres uniform numbers …
February 19, 2008 at 9:21 am
11: It wouldn’t have been the sexy go-for-it move, but retaining Cameron at 2/15 and then trading for Edmonds to play LF would have been an interesting approach. The risk stays low (which the Padres love), you have redundant possible CF, you increase the chances of Sunny Jim staying healthy, and when healthy he’s still a very good bat.
It wouldn’t have taken a Carlos Lee to get us into the playoffs or even to the WS. A healthy league-average SP could have done that.
February 19, 2008 at 9:23 am
12: And thus my statement “That has to be a spring training pic, my guess is from 82.”
It looks like open sky over TG’s helmet. That says ST / minor league park to me.
I bet you could send an email to Tony himself at SDSU and get an answer back.
February 19, 2008 at 9:25 am
9: Throwing a baseball 90+ mph is a totally unique situation. I agree that you can’t compare that to anything in the real world. The strongest person any of us know probably couldn’t break 70 on a radar gun; you have to train a long time and be genetically gifted to even be durable enough to get to the majors.
Another essay on the O’Leary site mentions it was Tom House who claimed Prior had perfect mechanics and it was House who designed those mechanics.
I love that the footage of a 19 year old Greg Maddux looks like the Zapruder film. I’m surprised it was in color.
10: I agree. TC is going to be in the Mark Sweeney role, which is fine. They might throw him out there a few times in spring training just to see how bad it is but after that he’s going to be the emergency outfielder for extra innings and injury situations.
11: Personally I’m fine with the way the Padres are being run. I really wanted Andruw Jones but other than that there haven’t been any big FAs that I regret not signing. I think we all saw it coming in San Francisco; I’m really glad we don’t have to worry about that happening here.
February 19, 2008 at 9:27 am
#5: LM, according a U-T article from 2004, Tony wore #53 in the minors. Maybe he was assigned this number before switching to #19?
February 19, 2008 at 9:28 am
15: Zapruder. Hah!
Let’s not forget that the Giants won a lot of games with their approach, and haven’t been down as long as we were from 99-03. The Padres can succeed with their current approach, but it doesn’t mean that they’d fail miserably doing things differently.
February 19, 2008 at 9:29 am
13: Interesting idea but Edmonds has said he considers himself a centerfielder and when he can’t play center anymore he’ll retire rather than play left. This was in response to Philly Billy asking him if he would consider a move to left if Bud Black asked him to move.
February 19, 2008 at 9:33 am
17: Without Barry Bonds and his flax seed oil the Giants would have been right there with the Padres during that period.
February 19, 2008 at 9:35 am
18: I don’t buy it. If his choices were riding the pine in St. Louis or playing everyday in San Diego or retiring and losing his salary for 2008, I don’t think he’d choose anything but the SD option.
He’d have been playing CF in April anyway, and if the Padres were 18-11 after that point you’d have to think he’d have a smile on his face as he ran out to left or right. One stroking story in the papers about how Petco demands a CF in both corners and all is right with the world.
February 19, 2008 at 9:39 am
#11: An interesting topic for discussion. I would say that the Pads made a “go for it” move last season when they picked up Jenga. I also agree with TW that the back end of the rotation killed us last year. Unfortunately I’m not confident that the club has addressed that weakness.
As for the specific question of Lee:
Carlos Lee: 697 PA, .303/.354/.528
SD LFers: 703 PA, .252/.340/.462
Lee hit .345/.397/.581 at Minute Maid last year. He wouldn’t have done that at Petco. I prefer saving the money and spending it elsewhere. Of course, the key is… spending it elsewhere.
February 19, 2008 at 9:41 am
re 7: Fuson was specific when he said A ball….but hey let’s talk about the AAA rotation anyway.
The problem in always signing the bigger name FA is simply this: I would have much rather signed Schmidt instead of Maddux….well make that
KT: 1
Mark:0
For the record I still think a league average starter would put this team into the playoffs. Although if you are apt to believe Pecota then Germano is that league average starter we’ve all been looking for: 125IP 4.04ERA 1.31 WHIP 74k-37BB
If he could that BB rate in half we might be really getting somewhere….at least into David Wells(before the end) territory.
February 19, 2008 at 9:44 am
19: So? Without Caminiti and Vaughn’s flax seed oil we’d have two fewer NL West flags ourselves.
Even then, it’s not exactly true. They had seasons in which most of their starting position players were 100+ OPS+ types and more than good enough starting pitching.
February 19, 2008 at 9:48 am
22:
“We could put together four rotations in the minors that you might think are as good as any in baseball for their level,” said Grady Fuson, vice president of scouting and development. “It’s the first time since I’ve been here where we’re sitting here across our (organizational) board and going, ‘Wow, how do I get this guy innings?’
The NEXT line is about low-A Ft. Wayne. Those lines I’ve helpfully provided obviously refer to all the full-season minor league clubs.
So….low A is 1.
High A is 2.
AA is 3.
AAA is 4.
Right? Is my math off?
Unless he’s talking about short season rotations, which would feature many pitchers who haven’t been drafted yet.
February 19, 2008 at 9:48 am
I’d just like to point out that Lee said numerous times that he wouldn’t go to a West Coast team. So no amount of wooing probably would have tipped the scales in our favor. And, as GY pointed out, Lee wouldn’t have had the success at PETCO that he did in Minute Maid.
Like most of us here, I can’t really gripe about about a move that wasn’t made. I’m not sure there have been any FAs the past two years that would have really worked for us.
February 19, 2008 at 9:51 am
25: I can think of a few. Put Gil Meche in the 2007 rotation and we win 95 games. Expensive, no doubt, but a vast improvement over the 4th and 5th starters we used. But you’re almost always going to overpay for a free agent.
February 19, 2008 at 9:56 am
23: You’re right of course, I was just being flip. The tendency of some statheads to deride SF for signing all those vets was a bit overstated I think. It was probably the right strategy when you have such a huge force in your lineup. A guy like Bonds in his prime means you always have a chance so you should stack your roster with as many known commodities as you can.
February 19, 2008 at 10:47 am
Heyman ranks Ken Williams even wiht KT. I don’t think so. What do you guys think?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
February 19, 2008 at 10:57 am
But the good news is that there are still a number of veteran outfielders still available at what turns out to be a decent price (because of collusion maybe?).
Shawn Green anyone ? Shannon Stewart ?
Will the Royals just about sign anyone or what ?
Buck is back in a camp (Royals) http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6157
February 19, 2008 at 11:00 am
26 … re: Meche … agree’d … with one caveat … would you have said / guess’d that during the ‘06/’07 offseason? I would not have …
February 19, 2008 at 11:06 am
24. The pitching has improved, but nearly everyone profiles as a #4 or #5 starter on the MLB level if they get there, with the exceptions of Latos (FW), Drew Miller (LE) and possibly Wade LeBlanc (Portland) - maybe a #3.
I think down the road the selection of Schmidt in this year’s draft is going to come under some fire - not for just passing on Rick Porcello, but passing up Michael Main, who Texas grabbed.
February 19, 2008 at 11:13 am
30: Oh, hell no. Not at those terms, anyway. I’m just saying that “regular” free agents do not always kill a team. Lee probably would have been enough to get us into the playoffs last year, although as Phantom says there’s no chance he’d have signed here. Meche definitely would have. Miguel Batista probably would have, at less than half of the Meche investment.
February 19, 2008 at 11:17 am
#31: It’s impossible to know the future, of course, but I think Main would have been a great pick there.
#32: Livan would’ve been a nice signing this year, especially at the price Minnesota ended up paying him.
February 19, 2008 at 11:21 am
It is easy to wish for Lee last year, but ask Houston if they want them in 2009, 2010 and beyond. With that glove, he would not have been a fit.
I would have said Schmidt last year but injuries derailed that…Mark Ase and I were in the same camp.
Other than that, most of the FA’s were not good fits. JD Drew would have been nice, but not for that cash. Jason Marquis might have been a decent fit.
February 19, 2008 at 11:23 am
33a: Main even hit a little bit in the Arizona league. To be honest, I didn’t have a problem with the Schmidt pick going off his numbers and his BA ranking. I wish Carlos Gomez had been on our staff then. The supplemental picks bothered me more. Michael Burgess. Grrr.
33b: Yeah, and Livan even falls into the non-regular, Padre-style free agent, a guy who’ll take a short deal. He’s the kind of “proven” veteran who, if he’s having a decent season and the Padres are out of it, brings back a couple of prospects in July.
February 19, 2008 at 11:31 am
34: That’s part of the difficulty in evaluating a free agent. A lot of people seem to assume that a signing is a bust if the player isn’t good every single year. What if Lee is really good 4 out of 6 years and just average the other 2? What if Drew bounces back for the rest of his contract with Boston? That rate of return would look pretty good to me. Not that the Padres are likely to put themselves in that position, but if overpaying by 10 million and 1 season helps ensure multiple playoff appearances, the “wasted” year is really just the cost of doing business, not a crime.
February 19, 2008 at 11:35 am
35. Part of me was hoping the Padres would break the bank a little and take a shot at Porcello, but I think they did blow it with Main - who was about the same price (actually even a little cheaper).
I would have loved to have seen the team opening up in Fort Wayne with Latos and Main as a 1-2 punch. Also I think BA’s ranking of Schmidt was off - they should have just given him an incomplete….but then again these same guys kept giving Matt Bush high rankings year after year.
February 19, 2008 at 11:38 am
35. All of the first round supplementals I liked, with the exception of Payne.
Kulbacki, Cumberland, Canham and Luebke - all solid players.
February 19, 2008 at 11:40 am
I completely agree with everyone about Livan. I think he would have really added some consistency to the rotation, even if it’s only league average. The dude is a work horse, and at the very least, might have given our bully a bit more rest than the average starter.
The 5th spot coming out of ST is going to be very interesting. When the DS crowd goes, I’d be really interested to get their opinions on Germano, Estes, and Rusch (as they seem to be the leading candidates for the spot). Germano seems to understand what he needs to do to improve, and I think a cutter would really help his game (I forget where I read that, but he’s apparently working with Balsley on developing a cutter). Estes would be a nice lefty option. I know nothing about Rusch.
February 19, 2008 at 11:54 am
38: They picked some solid players in the supplemental, but Burgess is a potential superstar. Still a ways off but more upside than any Padre position prospect. Carvajal’s the only guy in that neighborhood.
We had plenty of picks to be safe with, one risk wasn’t going to kill us, especially since Burgess signed for slot.
February 19, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I completely disagree about Hernandez, and it’s not just because I hate watching him pitch. He had a 79 BB’s against 90 K’s last year, with a 34 homers and 247 hits allowed in just 204 1/3 IP. PECOTA and ZIPS both forecast massive collapses for him, with 5.57 and 5.55 ERAs respectively. Germano is a better option. $5 million isn’t actually that cheap, either. I’d much rather save that money and use it on someone that wouldn’t be the seventh or eighth best starter on the team.
February 19, 2008 at 12:04 pm
41: The projections are bad, but he’s been defying projections the last several years. He’d have been the 4th best starter on the staff last year and would have made every start.
There’s almost no way he’s less valuable than Prior, Estes, Germano, Rusch, or any kid promoted from the minors. Prior because we’ll be lucky to get 80 innings from him, Estes and Rusch because they’ve been worse than him recently. Germano might be a wash, but Livan was better than him in 2007, too.
The problem with Germano isn’t Germano. It’s that we very well may need 2 of him.
February 19, 2008 at 12:28 pm
#42: Exactly. As with Trevor, one of these years Livan will do what some people have been predicting for the better part of a decade. Those people will then proclaim themselves geniuses for having foreseen it.
February 19, 2008 at 12:40 pm
40. I don’t know that much about Burgess but to me it seems the Padres have a difficult time with high school and international players because it takes them out of their statistical comfort zone and forces them to rely on tools and projections.
Overall I’ve liked when they have gone into the high school ranks in the past two drafts with Hunter and Cumberland - like you, I just wish they would roll the dice a few times more.
February 19, 2008 at 12:57 pm
44: It seems to be both a statistical comfort zone and a political / financial statement. They’re committed to paying slot, which college players are more likely to accept.
February 19, 2008 at 12:59 pm
42, 43: Hernandez last year had the lowest K-rate, the highest HR rate, and one of the lowest BB rates of his career. He pitched his fewest innings since he was 24 in 1999. These are good reasons to think the blowup projection is reasonable. Last year PECOTA forecast a 5.06 ERA and ZIPS a 5.14, which were reasonably close to his actual 4.93 ERA. In 2006 ZIPS called for a 3.96 ERA in Washington. I don’t have projections going back further than that, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say these have been forecasting a blowup from Livan for a long time. This is a relatively new development. He’s in decline, and his best ability, to pitch a bunch of innings, took a big hit last season.
I’m not really opposed to adding another warm body, I’d just prefer it not cost $5 million to add one who seems likely to blow up.
February 19, 2008 at 1:11 pm
#46: Anecdotal evidence here, but I was nearly laughed out of a draft room when I picked Livan before the 2000 season. Prevailing wisdom at the time said that an arm blowout was imminent. I got him for way below value and he turned in a fine performance. And he’s done okay since then, too.
Livan’s strikeouts are a concern, but despite the fact that his innings fell all the way to 204 last year, he’s a safer bet IMHO than Germano, Prior, Wolf, et al. Given Maddux’s age and CY’s injuries, it would be nice to have at least one guy toward the back end that we could count on to take the hill when it’s his turn.
February 19, 2008 at 2:00 pm
46: I absolutely agree that Livan is dangerous. More dangerous than Wolf or Prior, though? There’s almost no upside, but as GY says, he’s going to the post every 5th start. We only have 2 other starters you can say that about; Jake’s had nagging injuries before and is too valuable to ride very hard, and Maddux is older than me.
His falloff to 204 innings in a rough home park would have still ranked 2nd on a Padre staff that was starved for innings in the stretch drive. It’s not hard for me to see him put it in cruise control with that 81mph fastball on moist nights in Petco, ready to go 11 innings if needed.
February 19, 2008 at 2:15 pm
48: I would have loved to see him serve up flyballs in PETCO. I remember a particularly onerous game in ‘06 (I think) when he just absolutely terrorized our line-up with nothing but junk until OG finally put one out to right. I remember being so aggravated watching us not get solid contact off of him and just thinking what he’d be able to do if he pitched here full time. But alas, there’s no use in thinking about that now.
February 19, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I was thinking that signing Livan isn’t a move that a good team makes but the Diamondbacks had him last season and he didn’t hurt them too much.
I also hate the move to carry 12 pitchers. They had pitchers last season that went long stretches without pitching, why would it be any different this season?
February 19, 2008 at 2:23 pm
As far as the Giants are concerned, I think that they had a higher payroll than the Padres in most years even if you subtract Bonds’ contract. I’m curious how their payroll will compare in 2008 … it might still be higher.
Brian Sabean habitually threw his first round draft picks away to sign mediocre veterans, traded his best prospects (in the rare instances that he had any), signed old guys. For every Ellis Burks, there were three Dave Roberts’. They didn’t develop one significant offensive player between 2000 and 2008. Maybe Torrealba. Maybe Fred Lewis. Maybe Bill Mueller. Maybe Pedro Feliz, though he’s always been seen as a disappointment.
He’s done better with pitching, but not by a lot. The 2001 team is largely other teams’ dudes apart from Russ Ortiz. The current crop of Lowry, Cain, Correia, Lincecum, Sanchez, Wilson is probably the best group of homegrown guys in Sabean’s history.
February 19, 2008 at 2:35 pm
51: Yeah, but they don’t give you more wins for doing it with homegrown guys. Somehow despite all those negatives the Giants won a ton of games. From 1997 to 2004 they AVERAGED 90+ wins.
Sabean’s had as much success as Towers. The fact that Sabean’s now in a downcycle doesn’t mean we can forget our own, the one that last 5 long, long seasons. People make a lot of noise about 4 straight winnings seasons in Petco; the Giants streak was twice as long.
Three years into the Padres’ last rebuilding cycle (2001), I’d have killed for a group of young players that included Cain, Correia, and Lincecum. Our best youngsters were Brian Lawrence and Adam Eaton.
February 19, 2008 at 4:31 pm
#52 Perhaps the worst Sabean trade outside of the infamous Liriano , Joe Nathan and Bonser deal for A.J Pierszinski debacle was the ridiculous move of young flamethrower Jeremy Accardo for Shea Hillenbrand.
February 19, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Who is worse at developing young players, the Giants or the Padres? The Padres will have Greene and maybe Headley on offense, Peavy in the rotation (although I guess you could also count Germano). McAnulty might also be on the bench. For the Giants, they might have Ortmeier at 1B and Frandsen at 3B (blech), probably some bench guys, but their pitching staff is stacked with home-grown players. Their rotation, with the exception of Zito, will be all home-grown (Cain, Lincecum, Lowry, Sanchez or Correia) while the bullpen will probably be the same.
It’s a good thing that Sabean has screwed up the Giants so badly — if they developed hitters like they have pitchers the last few seasons the Padres would be in trouble.
February 19, 2008 at 6:48 pm
54: I think we’re going to start developing more good pitchers pretty soon. But I don’t think I’d complain about the staff that had by far the best ERA in baseball just because it wasn’t home grown. Also, Lincecum is quite a talent but we also got Antonelli, Latos, Leblanc, and C. Hunter out of the same draft so lets wait and see on the recent drafts (which I think we’ve done well).
Also, even though Chris Young and A-Gon were not developed by us, the talent we traded (eaton, otsuka, killian) for them was. Same with getting Heath Bell. I don’t think it matters where we get players as long as we don’t completely overpay for them in free agency.
February 19, 2008 at 7:05 pm
14 … TW … agree that the blue sky over TGs head in the photo does make it look like ST … and good idea about sending TG an email … but … got a suggestion for an email address? There’s not one listed here … http://goaztecs.cstv.com/school-bio/directory.html … which doesn’t surprise me …
16 … thanks, GY … at least the “53″ part of the mystery is solved … and my last shred of doubt that it’s TG himself on his card is now gone …
February 19, 2008 at 10:33 pm
56: I guess T Gwynn didn’t quite have a plethora of jersey numbers before settling on 19, LM.