Congratulations. You’ve made it to Friday and our final installment in Padres Pitcher Smackdown.
Andy Ashby’s peaks triumphed over Eric Show’s longevity in Day 4 of the smackdown. Ashby also got bonus points for once throwing a 75-pitch complete game and later being traded for Adam Eaton, who in turn was traded for Adrian Gonzalez and Chris Young.
Show, on the other hand, appears to be one of the more polarizing figures in Padres history. Depending on who you talk to, he either was a jerk or misunderstood. In my experience, most jerks are misunderstood. And if you don’t believe me, ask Barry Bonds. 
Anyway, before we wrap things up this week, here’s a quick look at the entire series:
- Monday: Gaylord Perry vs Dave Roberts
- Tuesday: Dave Dravecky vs Clay Kirby
- Wednesday: Bruce Hurst vs Jake Peavy
- Thursday: Andy Ashby vs Eric Show
- Friday: Andy Benes vs Ed Whitson
For the finale, we turn to a guy who once was on target to become Randy Jones’ successor as best starting pitcher in Padres history, Andy Benes, and the enigmatic Ed Whitson:
| Year(s) | GS | IP | ERA | ERA+ | WS | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Career with Padres | 1989-1995 | 186 | 1235 | 3.57 | 109 | 71 |
| Best year with Padres | 1991 | 33 | 223 | 3.03 | 125 | 16 |
Arguments For:
- Benes ranks among the top 10 in Padres history in ERA, wins, K/9, innings, starts, and shutouts.
- No pitcher has struck out more batters in a Padres uniform than Benes; no starter has posted a higher single-season K/9 than his 9.87 in
19841994 (thanks, LynchMob!). - Benes was incredibly consistent and durable; from his debut in August 1989 until his July 1995 trade to Seattle, his ERA almost always stayed at or above league average and he never missed a start.
Arguments Against:
- Benes never won more than 15 games in a season for the Padres.
- Other than 1991, his ERA+ never ventured higher than 110.
- Despite posting solid numbers, there was perhaps a sense of unfulfilled expectations from the first pick overall in the 1988 draft (hey, at least he wasn’t Matt Bush).
| Year(s) | GS | IP | ERA | ERA+ | WS | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Career with Padres | 1983-1984, 1986-1991 | 208 | 1354.1 | 3.69 | 99 | 68 |
| Best year with Padres | 1990 | 32 | 228.2 | 2.60 | 148 | 19 |
Arguments For:
- Whitson was part of the rotation when the Padres first reached the World Series in 1984; although his only start against the Tigers was a disaster, he shut down the Cubs in Game 3 of the NLCS to keep the Padres’ post-season alive.
- Despite being mediocre for much of his career, Whitson’s peaks were remarkably high — his performances in 1989 and 1990 remain among the best ever by a Padres’ starter.
- He ranks third in franchise history in wins, innings, and games started, and seventh in strikeouts.
Arguments Against:
- Whitson’s 1983, 1986, 1987, and 1991 were pretty terrible; his 1988 wasn’t real hot either.
- He lacked dominanace; Whitson’s single-season high in strikeouts was 135, and he fanned just over 5 batters per 9 innings during his Padres career.
- I can’t think of anything else.
This looks to me like another case of career value vs peak value. Who do you like, and why?
Did you guys/gals see this little blurb on ESPN yesterday about Trevor?
Trevor Hoffman’s 500th save: The all-time save leader needs 18 more to become the first reliever in history to save 500 games — not bad for a former Class A shortstop who became a pitcher after interpreting his manager’s scouting report on him as something like “the guy is killing us.” Hoffman doesn’t need another save to make the Hall, but no closer should take the chance given that Goose Gossage is still not in, and he has the most victories, most strikeouts and most innings pitched of the 20 pitchers with 300 career saves.
I was looking at the roster for the Pad’s and noticed that all the infielders except for KG were born in CA. No wonder CM doesn’t like him. And of those born in CA, all but GB and TW were born in SoCal. Things that make you go Hmmmm!
BTW Geoff, I noticed the spell checker working in the posting box. nice!
PF4L…if you ain’t from SoCal, you ain’t noth’n!
I actually did not realize that the IF was from Cali…as a SD native (yes, I really am one of the 8 people born and raised here), I am partial to homegrown talent like NOG, OG, and AGon…I am watching with interest Carlos Quentin, Jeff DaVannon, Hayden Penn, and others…you know, we laid back SD boys need to stick together!
BTW, I certainly did not mean to overlook/not mention that crazy guy Zito or the most promising pitcher since Ben MacDonald, Mark Prior…both of whom graduated from my Alma Mater USDHS/Cathedral HS…
I also am a native San Diegan, class of ’61
I knew I liked you!
All is really quiet in Padre land lately.
In case of confusion, I am not a USD alum. I was born in ’61. I am an Aggie, of the Texas variety.
re: 3 … I was born at the Navy Hospital in Coronado … does that count?
re: Benes’ Argument For #2 … that’d be 1994 …
re: Whitson’s Argument Against #3 … he played for the Yankees
Seriously, I’m as big a fan of the 1984 team as anyone … but I *never* liked Ed Whitson … unreasonably so, I’ll admit … but then … well, here’s his entry in B-R.com … http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/whitsed01.shtml … and here’s the kiss-of-death in my eyes …
December 27, 1984: Signed as a Free Agent with the New York Yankees
7: No doubt, I am in the process of making my spreadsheet of the active, 40-man and non-roster invitees. I like to track who is currently on the rosters and predict the 25 man roster early and then see how close I get. I was off by 2-3 players last year if I remember correctly.
Now that sounds like a good challenge….Who do you fellow snorter’s think will ultimately make the 25-man?
Sounds like a good challenge PF4L…Probably need to set some parameters…like all entries must be in by February 14…one entry per poster…Costs a buck to play and winner gets a DS T-Shirt or something.
What do you think Geoff?
I was (and still am) a huge Benes fan, but I seem to remember him constantly let me down with mental lapses that cost games. While I didn’t dislike him, I have to put Eddie Lee on the all-time bonehead list for the ’84 WS catastrophe of 3 earned runs in 0.2 innings that Andy Hawkins eventually got the the Pad’s only WS win for.
Benes could also mash the ball at the plate. I put my pick for Benes. Whitson reminds me of the old pitcher in Major Leage the Movie..Ed Harris
#11: I’m liking it except for the fee. This one will be on the house. So I guess the winner would be whoever gets the highest percentage of matches? Let me think on it a bit (suggestions welcome), and maybe we can get started sometime next week.
We will need to come up with a tie-breaker…maybe total runs scored by the Padres on opening day…
Geoff, I just realized that the spell checker is on my browser (I use Mozilla’s Firefox). That might be an answer to us folks who were requesting some kind of editor for our posts. If we can correct it before posting, then an after-post editor wouldn’t be as necessary.
How about the tie breaker be the starting rotation (pretty much a given, but you never know). The next level could be whoever picks the most starters and their correct position?
I suggest the format be:
Starting Rotation (in order of 1st 5 games)
Starting Position Players (in opening day batting order)
Relief Pitchers
Bench
This would likely preclude any need for a tie-breaker.
Andy over Ed.
As much as Andy Benes ended up a disappointment (not unlike Matt Clement later), he was good more often than not. Never great, though.
I don’t know Ed much other than the World Series and then, only from people’s recollection.
Benes ended up being a decent (not better) pitcher after leaving the Padres. Still, overall, a disappointment.
This roster contest sounds like a great idea.
Also, I think some provision should be made for players who open the year on the DL. Lots can happen between now and opening day.
Re 20: Ah, but that is all part of the fun M317, trying to predict things like that. I think if one of your players ends up on the DL, then you loose one. Of course, so will most of the other people who submit rosters, so it would pretty well be across the board, Unless it happens to a darkhorse candidate. Then, that is the price for going with a riskier player anyway.
For example, Sledge may be a prime candidate for spring training DL (good chance at making the starting lineup, pushing himself a little harder, recently had a major injury), do you choose him, or maybe PMac, Cust or Cruz as your starter for that reason.
This just gave me another idea: How about weighing the starting rotation and starting lineup a little heavier than the relief corps and bench?
21/22 – good points, and I agree with what you are saying.
If Kouz rakes (we all love that word, don’t we?) this season, we all need to remind Keith Law, who dismissed him again in a chat today.
Drastically off-topic but does anyone know the whereabouts of Chan Ho Park? Seems to me that, at the right (read:low) price, he might be a nice long relief/fill-in for David Wells when he beaches himself.
Stephen…scouts seem very mixed on Kouz…I really like what I have seen and his numbers are SICK!
A lot of people were mixed on KG being an everyday SS in the majors to, so you never know…
**Disclaimer**
I think KG is overrated and should be punted out of SD while he still has decent value…and that window may have been shut 6 months ago.
Latest ZIPS Simulaton involving the Padres has been posted. The Padres beat up on the Rockies pretty bad. Here are the posted results.
http://DodgerSims.Blogspot.com/
vr, Xei
Just in case anyone is interested, the MLB.com Offseason package ($14.95) includes spring training games and other cool stuff…including the Caribbean Series…
As I type this I am watching Venezuela @ the Dominican Republic…14th inning. There are major leaguers (inc. Miggy, Yorvit Torialba, some of the Molina fam, etc.) and it is pretty good baseball…the games are running live all this next week.
Pretty nice little warm-up for baseball nuts.
You’re nuts. I’m starting to question just how much of a nut I am. I have recently started subs to BP and Baseball America and I haven’t browsed in a couple of weeks. I haven’t even bothered to catch Alderson on XX since his call-in show.
Just waiting for some storms, so I can snowboard in some fresh stuff. When the prospect of powder is over, I’m sure I’ll be dying for some freshly cut grass and the sweet crack of the bat.
I’ll go with Benes over Whitson. Usually I’m a peak guy, but when it comes to franchise players, longevity means a lot to me.
Benes for certain! That durability thing you pointed out is huge and you just always knew what you were getting.
CM, Uni grad here too, class of ’93… Go Dons!
Bruce…class of ’94…small world.