Friday before Labor Day? Yeah, there’s a little bit going on right now. We’re still talking about the David Wells deal, we’ve got the favorite restaurants near Petco Park thread going, and now we’ve got links. Go nuts (if you haven’t already):
David Wells Stuff
- Padres add Wells for stretch run (Padres.com)
- Padres re-acquire Wells from Red Sox (San Diego Union-Tribune)
- Padres bring back ‘Boomer’ for stretch drive (North County Times). According to Shaun O’Neill, “Unofficially, club sources confirmed the player [to be named later] is Triple-A catcher George Kottaras.”
- Why Does The Rest Of The Country Think We Are Idiots? (San Diego Spotlight). Like the rest of us, Rich Campbell is having trouble believing that Kottaras is the price the Padres will pay to bring Wells home. We’ll all have to wait and see.
- Wells to San Diego? (Padres Run Down). Peter Friberg is part of the chorus as well wondering how six weeks of a 43-year-old pitcher is worth your best position prospect. He also gets a kick out of ESPN’s characterization of Kottaras as a “solid defender” (be sure to read the comments for LynchMob’s explanation of that phenomenon).
- Towel Meets Floor. Because, Y’know… Someone Threw It In (Surviving Grady). Surprisingly little reaction from the Beantown contingent. One Red Sox fan is bummed to see Wells leave Boston, although not for the reasons you’d necessarily expect.
Other Stuff
- After acquiring Nevin in May, Cubs trade him to Twins (ESPN). Apparently the Padres were making a play for bringing Phil Nevin back to San Diego. Maybe we’ll get to face him in the World Series.
- By Popular Demand… NL Playoff Odds (ArmchairGM). Ooh, pretty charts. [via Baseball Musings.]
- Parity and the National League (Baseball Analysts). David Pinto drops in for a guest spot. He’s not impressed with the NL. One of the things I really like about the NL is that there’s at least the illusion of free will. If you follow the AL and you’re not a fan of the Yankees or Red Sox, you’re most likely hosed. How fun is that? This reminds me, next time someone asks you which of those two clubs you prefer, tell them “whichever is playing the Giants” and watch their mind explode. Good times.
- Places I Didn’t Like (MtDewVirus). Speaking of former Padres, it’s nice to see Doug Mirabelli putting his art skills to work.
Wild-card contender Reds are in town for three starting tonight. IGD will be up at 6 p.m. PT. Happy Friday and go Padres!
I was dramatic yesterday b/c I was w/o good sleep…but the fact remains that I cannot go to the game tonight…so I do have 2 tickets, 3rd row isle, Left Field Foul line, right next to the Western Metal Supply building…anyone interested?
And for the record, that jailhouse artwork is classic…Listening to Boomer and Bochy on the radio this morning was very funny…and I am thankful to find Padres fans who will talk baseball!!! Y’all rock.
Now KT and Bochy must love havin someone their age to horse around with.
how much mike?
Face value Steve…$26.
Just curious, but what happens if Kottaras gets injured in the last few games this year? Should we strangely be rooting for that so that Boston might choose another PTBNL?
Or I guess he just won’t play the last few games if it was already decided that it’d be him.
After Boomer said F-YOU to San Diego and ran for the money to Boston KT should have let him rot there. This is seriously a sucker move. Maybe he gets us an extra win or 2 and maybe he helps out some unmotivated players earn their money but he also helps ruin our crappy farm system a little more and still gets here at home after he punked us. Not too mention as I recall pitching hasn’t exactly been our weak spot all season. I’m sure he’ll help out but it’s not like he makes us a World Series team!
You know, the more that I think about this, at least we’re making moves to try and improve the here and now while we have a shot at making October.
That is “the Mission” after all, isn’t it?
The “mission” should be building championship caliber teams. That’s not what they did. They better have something up their sleeves for next year on signing an impact FA or something because now that the trade bait is gone I don’t see them being able to pull any sort of impact deals off. I will never root against the Padres but I honestly wouldn’t be sad if the whole thing blows up in KT’s face, that guy needs to go!
KRS, if we go on a wild run and make the postseason, does your opinion on KT change? Just playing devils advocate really.
I used to be a big KT supporter. In more recent years not as much. He does tend to find useful players off of the scrapheap (bullpen especially), but he also doesn’t always provide the Boch with the proper tools to win.
One thing though – when was the last time that for three consecutive years we were in the playoff hunt when September rolls around?
Bleh n/m mike the wife says we have plans tonight
let me know if you want to get rid of your tix for any other game though!
Come on KRS1, don’t go there, wouldn’t you take a job w/ another company if they offered you more money, or better benefits, or a greater chance at success…?
I don’t get why we hold athletes to a different standard than how we handle our own job situations.
…I just think Geoff’s line is classic:
“We’re still talking about the David Wells deal, we’ve got the ‘favorite restaurants near Petco Park’ thread going…”
Just b/c Boomer’s fat, we don’t need to rub it in and talk restaurants too…
favorite restaurants is also: the place you will most likely find David Wells at when he’s not at the park.
I think the problem is, is that no one has faith that the pads will make a run in the playoffs therefore giving up young talent for wells is not the best move. If the pads were leading the NL west by 4 or 5 games this move would make alot more since but since the pads may not even make it to October baseball this is a harder move to swallow.
I mean, I think this gives us a better chance to win when Wells pitches (vs. Thompson). We’re a few games behind the Dodgers and leading the Wildcard.
If this isn’t the time to take a chance on improving your team and making a run when is?
I’m confused by the “if we were up 5 games this would make sense” perception I guess.
Not really because I could care less about a playoff run. I want a legitamate World Series contender. I don’t mind not making the playoffs if we are making the team better for the future. If I was a Marlins fan I would be exstatic right now. If I was a Brewers fan or a Diamondbacks fan or hell even a Devil Rays fan (yeah the Devil Rays!) I would be syked at the talent they are assembling and the type of teams they could be in a year or 2 if mixed with the right FA’s. But instead we have a non-factor farm system and the one guy who is worth anything is now gone for a 43 year old pitcher who in 2 months will be retired.
The only thing I am looking forward to is having money to spend this off-season. Maybe KT can work some magic because I have defended and supported him in the past but as far as I’m concerned he’s had long enough.
If anyone is interested in my tix for tonight…see post #1…I will throw in tix for Monday’s game…can’t go to either.
What i ment by that was that is that wells isn’t here to pitch in Sept he’s here to pitch in Oct, and we dont even know if the pads will make it to Oct, I guess I dont feel like this is their year. I mean I would be lying if I said that I though they had a real shot to make it out of the NLDS.
With this up and down play since the ASB I’m not even sure if they will make the playoffs, thats why Im not sure if it is worth the gamble to give up the little young talent they have.
Im not saying I think Kotaras is a star but they could have used him in another deal in the off season that would have helped the team in 07, 08, 09 …
Peter,
The Pad’s showed him lot’s of loyalty that year. Remember he cut his hand on a beer glass or something stupid like that and spent a bunch of time on the DL and then on the last game of the season KT and Boch gave him a start on short rest so that he could qualify for an escalator in his contract. All he did was talk about how he loved pitching at home and blah blah blah. Then KT comes out and says they are finalizing a deal that should be done in the next day or so and BOOM. Boomer’s gone at the drop of a hat for more money in Boston. I’m not saying it’s wrong to take more money and I’m not even saying I wouldn’t have done the same thing but I am saying… HE made his bed and KT should have made him lay in it. He showed the organization no loyalty and if it were me I would have told him to F-off. He hated Boston and the media spotlight so he started demanding a trade back to southern California. That shouldn’t be how things work in my opinion.
A “legitimate World Series contender” is a red herring. Very few people, even Marlins fans, thought the 2003 team had a shot at the WS. A non-sucky year from Alex Gonzalez, the unexpected brilliance of Dontrelle Willis, half a season of Cabrera, big trophy. Same thing goes for Detroit. They lost 91 games last year. WS contenders come out of nowhere.
I don’t like trading Kottaras, but if you keep holding out for tomorrow you may sacrifice present success without gaining anything in the future. Look at the great farm system we had in 2001, which largely went to waste. Other teams have assembled great young talent and fizzled. I do wish they’d taken more of a shot at the deadline. Help helps more the longer you have it.
every playoff team is a World Series contender
Steve…I am with you…Perceived value is what it is about. on a talent basis, this may not be bad, but on a value basis it is terrible.
In negotiations, perception is reality…If Kotarras is perceived as our #2 prospect, then we should have been able to get a better player than Boomer in the offseason…
I understand TW but the Marlins and the Tigers also have/had stupid amounts of talent and pitching. I don’t really think the Padres really compare to either team. Maybe next year we have a chance to be the Tigers.
#20: How many fans are going to turn out for a “We Stuck To Our Principles” parade downtown?
Tom…I agree with you…that is why you do the Giles deal a couple of years ago every time…two unproven guys for one of the top OF’s in the game…all day long and twice on Sunday.
If you can get a proven major league commodity for prospects, sign me up…but this trade has more hair on it that just a straight up swap.
We are talking about the proven major league talent being on our roster for all of 45-60 days, at most. Like I said this morning, if we do this deal at the begining of the season, or even back in June, sign me up. If it is a July deal, probably. But an August deal? Smells of desperation and is a major mistake. Not b/c Kotarras is God, but because his trade value should have been higher on August 31st. KT needs to go to the Karass Negotiation Seminar.
Masticore: RE: #5
As someone pointed out yesterday, PTBNL does not mean it will be decided later. It means they just don’t want to tell us and the league offices yet. It is on paper and signed (contractually, rights have been exchanged) and binding. The cash thing is probably the clause your looking for. If Kottaras decides he truly prefers his old beer softball leagues and retires, the Sox can demand an agreed upon amount of cash from the Pads. This is also how the league signs off on the transaction, because the money clause guarantees the satisfaction of the team receiving the PTBNL.
23: That also begs the question of what other teams thought of Kottaras. Our #2 prospect isn’t such a big deal, our farm system stinks.
24: Nobody thought they had stupid talent/pitching before their winning seasons. In 2003 the Marlins staff was inconsistent pitchers and the untried Willis, who the Cubs never thought much of. This past winter the Tigers paid Kenny Rogers 9 million a season and they were finished by July 4th last season. Few would have expected Verlander to be this good, this soon, or Granderson to bust out, etc. You could say the same thing for the 98 Padres. We came in 4th in 97. Brown was a risky move that paid off huge.
Teams can’t always wait until all their ducks are in a row. At the end of a season, if you have a legitimate chance, it’s worth getting some help. That help may not be worth Kottaras, but you don’t just turn your back on the playoffs because you’re scared of the Mets or the AL champion.
#25
Probably 3 people less then the “Fat ass 43 year old pitcher is our savior” parade.
TW Re #21, its not waiting for tomorrow is knowing when you can make a run and when you cant, Kottaras is one of the few chips the pads have to move in the off season for a 3B or any other need they may have.
26: Largely agreed, CM. I’d much rather have acquired a better than Mike Thompson pitcher in July or a 3b who we control for 2007.
What I disagree with is the idea that we should play the hand we had just because there was no chance of drawing a straight flush. Sometimes 3 of a kind is enough.
The Indians looked like a great bet to make the playoffs this year, young talent, good farm system, couple veterans, everything lined up, then – splat. We’re lucky to find ourselves where we are, and it was a mistake to not do more at the deadline, but since we did get lucky, let’s make the most of it.
I still don’t like losing Kottaras.
30. We’re leading the wild card. You know how many WC teams have gone deep in the playoffs recently? Lots. You could even go back to the early 70s A’s teams, with “playoff heroes” like Gene Tenance coming out of nowhere. Or the 1985 Royals, who had two hitters in the entire lineup. Strange stuff happens in the playoffs. Nobody, not you, not me, knows who can make a run.
Wasn’t that the year Dontrelle was rookie of the year? As I remember it Beckett won them that championship and they still had Burnett or Penny (I can’t remember which one was hurt at the time). That sounds like good pitching to me. Maybe they were not the favorite going into the season but by the end of the season they were definitely gaining momentum.
I’m all for helping the team out but Wells can not be compared to Kevin Brown who was basically the best pitcher in the league at the time. I know it can turn around fast and that’s why getting Wells for 2 months at best doesn’t excite me. He gives us nothing for next year.
29: But 40,000 fewer than would be at Petco for even one playoff game.
Almost nobody thought the 98 Padres would get past Randy Johnson and the Astros. The 98 team was a lot better than the 2006 team, but you only need to win 7 games out of 12 to make the World Series. 11 out of 19 and you’re the world champs.
Wells makes us a little better. We need to be better.
From the chat with Christina Kahrl goin’ on right now over at BP:
“OrigamiT (The Internets): You’re my source for all trade breakdowns, so Wells for Kotteras. Your thoughts?
Christina Kahrl: Let’s hope not, if you’re a Pads fan. I know there’s some sentiment that it’s payback for Josh Bard, but Kottaras could be a solid everday catcher in The Show, while Jumbo’s just hoping his last five or six regular season starts mean something.”
#21:
interesting thought about the farm system.
that great 2000-2002 system produced 2 ml regulars (Peavy, Nady/Cameron).
the sucky 2003-present system produced 3.5 (Greene, Barfield, Hensley, Thompson).
which one was really better?
Nice picture of Padres in a dog pile … http://tinyurl.com/py2kb … AZL Padres win the Arizona League championship! Ah, the magic of 2006 begins
ps. Wonder if Cedric can get promoted to Ft. Wayne and help them win a championship there too?
33: Yes, that was the year Willis did so well. But if we went by your standards, the Marlins would never have signed Pudge before the season. Too many rookies. Too many unknowns. Lots of competition in the NL East. Same thing goes for Kenny Rogers in Detroit. Why spend 18 million over 2 years when there were so many question marks? New manager, bunch of rookie pitchers, a team that finished next-to-last in a tough division the year before.
We know the Padres are good enough to make the playoffs, and we know that lesser teams have won playoff series. I’d have rather made other trades earlier, but I can’t be too upset about trying to take advantage of being lucky this year.
36: 2000-2002 gave us half of Giles (Ollie). But we were ranked top 5 in baseball farm systems back then, and it didn’t pan out. Tankersley, Cyr, Howard and more held onto for no return.
39: ah, forgot about ollie for giles.
I know about the rankings, I just think the contrast between
Burroughs/Tank/Howard/Cyr/Tucker
and
Greene/Barfield/Hensley/Sweeney/Thompson/Adkins/Cassidy
is notable.
you could add Perez to that first list, because what if we kept him. ugly.
wait, Perez was very good in ’04, so much so that we might have won the division if we had him. my argument is just full of holes.
38
What are you taliking about my standards?
I think the Marlins did it perfectly by signing a guy like Pudge before the season. I think the Tigers are doing it perfectly by signine a guy like Kenny Rodgers before the season and Pudge a couple of years ago. I think you mix in key FA with young talent and you can have a real shot at a championship. But all I thought I said was I hate this trade and…
“The only thing I am looking forward to is having money to spend this off-season. Maybe KT can work some magic”
I just think the kottaras trade was terrible waste of resources.
Save me the Wild Card arguement…we are not talking about a Padres team that compares with the WC teams that made it to the series…
NY Mets 2000 — 94wins
Anaheim 2002 — 99 wins
Florida 2003 — 91 wins
Boston 2004 — 98 wins
Houston 2005 — 89 wins (but they had a staff that would embarass the ’06 Pads.
Do you see the difference? We are going to win the Wild Card with 85 wins…that is a HUGE gap between us and any of the other teams.
85 wins means you are a little better than most. 90+ wins and you are one of the better teams in the Majors.
Also from the Christina Karhl chat at BP:
misterjohnny (Los Angeles): What’s a fair price for a David Wells rental?
Christina Kahrl: A bad of microwave burritos to be named later?
I have nothing to add except that this move seems to me to indicate that we now have Russell Branyan as our ’07 third baseman. How did the Dodgers get Maddux for a sub-replacement level type player and we give up a very good hitting prospect for David Wells in September?
Friarfan, thanks for the enlightenment, that makes a little more sense now.
I think even asking us to get 85 wins might be pushing it that means we need to win 17 of 28 from here on out. With this team that’s asking a lot!
Yankees 2000 — 87wins
Cleveland 1997 — 86wins
Minnesota 1987 — 85wins
NY Mets 1973 — 82wins
rare, but it does happen.
39, 40: Just a reminder that Howard indirectly netted Cassidy. BTW the org tree is up to date with the latest moves.
Thanks, Eric, for the reminder that anything can happen once you’re in the playoffs. If I’m not mistaken, that ’87 Twins team allowed more runs than it scored during the regular season and went on to win it all.
Believe me, if the Padres were to win a world series I don’t care if they were 82-80 or 120-42 during the regular season.
You’ve gotta be in it to win it. Then, anything can happen.