Friday Links (1 Sep 06)
Fri, Sep 1, 2006
by Geoff Young
Friday before Labor Day? Yeah, there’s a little bit going on right now. We’re still talking about the David Wells deal, we’ve got the favorite restaurants near Petco Park thread going, and now we’ve got links. Go nuts (if you haven’t already):
David Wells Stuff
- Padres add Wells for stretch run (Padres.com)
- Padres re-acquire Wells from Red Sox (San Diego Union-Tribune)
- Padres bring back ‘Boomer’ for stretch drive (North County Times). According to Shaun O’Neill, “Unofficially, club sources confirmed the player [to be named later] is Triple-A catcher George Kottaras.”
- Why Does The Rest Of The Country Think We Are Idiots? (San Diego Spotlight). Like the rest of us, Rich Campbell is having trouble believing that Kottaras is the price the Padres will pay to bring Wells home. We’ll all have to wait and see.
- Wells to San Diego? (Padres Run Down). Peter Friberg is part of the chorus as well wondering how six weeks of a 43-year-old pitcher is worth your best position prospect. He also gets a kick out of ESPN’s characterization of Kottaras as a “solid defender” (be sure to read the comments for LynchMob’s explanation of that phenomenon).
- Towel Meets Floor. Because, Y’know… Someone Threw It In (Surviving Grady). Surprisingly little reaction from the Beantown contingent. One Red Sox fan is bummed to see Wells leave Boston, although not for the reasons you’d necessarily expect.
Other Stuff
- After acquiring Nevin in May, Cubs trade him to Twins (ESPN). Apparently the Padres were making a play for bringing Phil Nevin back to San Diego. Maybe we’ll get to face him in the World Series.
- By Popular Demand… NL Playoff Odds (ArmchairGM). Ooh, pretty charts. [via Baseball Musings.]
- Parity and the National League (Baseball Analysts). David Pinto drops in for a guest spot. He’s not impressed with the NL. One of the things I really like about the NL is that there’s at least the illusion of free will. If you follow the AL and you’re not a fan of the Yankees or Red Sox, you’re most likely hosed. How fun is that? This reminds me, next time someone asks you which of those two clubs you prefer, tell them “whichever is playing the Giants” and watch their mind explode. Good times.
- Places I Didn’t Like (MtDewVirus). Speaking of former Padres, it’s nice to see Doug Mirabelli putting his art skills to work.
Wild-card contender Reds are in town for three starting tonight. IGD will be up at 6 p.m. PT. Happy Friday and go Padres!
Picking up where last year's version left off, the Ducksnorts 2008 Baseball Annual provides in-depth analysis of and commentary on the San Diego Padres. Get your copy today.
September 1, 2006 at 7:54 am
I was dramatic yesterday b/c I was w/o good sleep…but the fact remains that I cannot go to the game tonight…so I do have 2 tickets, 3rd row isle, Left Field Foul line, right next to the Western Metal Supply building…anyone interested?
And for the record, that jailhouse artwork is classic…Listening to Boomer and Bochy on the radio this morning was very funny…and I am thankful to find Padres fans who will talk baseball!!! Y’all rock.
September 1, 2006 at 8:19 am
Now KT and Bochy must love havin someone their age to horse around with.
September 1, 2006 at 8:46 am
how much mike?
September 1, 2006 at 9:00 am
Face value Steve…$26.
September 1, 2006 at 9:09 am
Just curious, but what happens if Kottaras gets injured in the last few games this year? Should we strangely be rooting for that so that Boston might choose another PTBNL?
Or I guess he just won’t play the last few games if it was already decided that it’d be him.
September 1, 2006 at 9:09 am
After Boomer said F-YOU to San Diego and ran for the money to Boston KT should have let him rot there. This is seriously a sucker move. Maybe he gets us an extra win or 2 and maybe he helps out some unmotivated players earn their money but he also helps ruin our crappy farm system a little more and still gets here at home after he punked us. Not too mention as I recall pitching hasn’t exactly been our weak spot all season. I’m sure he’ll help out but it’s not like he makes us a World Series team!
September 1, 2006 at 9:15 am
You know, the more that I think about this, at least we’re making moves to try and improve the here and now while we have a shot at making October.
That is “the Mission” after all, isn’t it?
September 1, 2006 at 9:36 am
The “mission” should be building championship caliber teams. That’s not what they did. They better have something up their sleeves for next year on signing an impact FA or something because now that the trade bait is gone I don’t see them being able to pull any sort of impact deals off. I will never root against the Padres but I honestly wouldn’t be sad if the whole thing blows up in KT’s face, that guy needs to go!
September 1, 2006 at 9:53 am
KRS, if we go on a wild run and make the postseason, does your opinion on KT change? Just playing devils advocate really.
I used to be a big KT supporter. In more recent years not as much. He does tend to find useful players off of the scrapheap (bullpen especially), but he also doesn’t always provide the Boch with the proper tools to win.
One thing though - when was the last time that for three consecutive years we were in the playoff hunt when September rolls around?
September 1, 2006 at 9:57 am
Bleh n/m mike the wife says we have plans tonight
September 1, 2006 at 9:58 am
let me know if you want to get rid of your tix for any other game though!
September 1, 2006 at 9:59 am
Come on KRS1, don’t go there, wouldn’t you take a job w/ another company if they offered you more money, or better benefits, or a greater chance at success…?
I don’t get why we hold athletes to a different standard than how we handle our own job situations.
September 1, 2006 at 10:00 am
…I just think Geoff’s line is classic:
“We’re still talking about the David Wells deal, we’ve got the ‘favorite restaurants near Petco Park’ thread going…”
Just b/c Boomer’s fat, we don’t need to rub it in and talk restaurants too…
September 1, 2006 at 10:04 am
favorite restaurants is also: the place you will most likely find David Wells at when he’s not at the park.
September 1, 2006 at 10:04 am
I think the problem is, is that no one has faith that the pads will make a run in the playoffs therefore giving up young talent for wells is not the best move. If the pads were leading the NL west by 4 or 5 games this move would make alot more since but since the pads may not even make it to October baseball this is a harder move to swallow.
September 1, 2006 at 10:12 am
I mean, I think this gives us a better chance to win when Wells pitches (vs. Thompson). We’re a few games behind the Dodgers and leading the Wildcard.
If this isn’t the time to take a chance on improving your team and making a run when is?
I’m confused by the “if we were up 5 games this would make sense” perception I guess.
September 1, 2006 at 10:12 am
Not really because I could care less about a playoff run. I want a legitamate World Series contender. I don’t mind not making the playoffs if we are making the team better for the future. If I was a Marlins fan I would be exstatic right now. If I was a Brewers fan or a Diamondbacks fan or hell even a Devil Rays fan (yeah the Devil Rays!) I would be syked at the talent they are assembling and the type of teams they could be in a year or 2 if mixed with the right FA’s. But instead we have a non-factor farm system and the one guy who is worth anything is now gone for a 43 year old pitcher who in 2 months will be retired.
The only thing I am looking forward to is having money to spend this off-season. Maybe KT can work some magic because I have defended and supported him in the past but as far as I’m concerned he’s had long enough.
September 1, 2006 at 10:16 am
If anyone is interested in my tix for tonight…see post #1…I will throw in tix for Monday’s game…can’t go to either.
September 1, 2006 at 10:20 am
What i ment by that was that is that wells isn’t here to pitch in Sept he’s here to pitch in Oct, and we dont even know if the pads will make it to Oct, I guess I dont feel like this is their year. I mean I would be lying if I said that I though they had a real shot to make it out of the NLDS.
With this up and down play since the ASB I’m not even sure if they will make the playoffs, thats why Im not sure if it is worth the gamble to give up the little young talent they have.
Im not saying I think Kotaras is a star but they could have used him in another deal in the off season that would have helped the team in 07, 08, 09 …
September 1, 2006 at 10:23 am
Peter,
The Pad’s showed him lot’s of loyalty that year. Remember he cut his hand on a beer glass or something stupid like that and spent a bunch of time on the DL and then on the last game of the season KT and Boch gave him a start on short rest so that he could qualify for an escalator in his contract. All he did was talk about how he loved pitching at home and blah blah blah. Then KT comes out and says they are finalizing a deal that should be done in the next day or so and BOOM. Boomer’s gone at the drop of a hat for more money in Boston. I’m not saying it’s wrong to take more money and I’m not even saying I wouldn’t have done the same thing but I am saying… HE made his bed and KT should have made him lay in it. He showed the organization no loyalty and if it were me I would have told him to F-off. He hated Boston and the media spotlight so he started demanding a trade back to southern California. That shouldn’t be how things work in my opinion.
September 1, 2006 at 10:26 am
A “legitimate World Series contender” is a red herring. Very few people, even Marlins fans, thought the 2003 team had a shot at the WS. A non-sucky year from Alex Gonzalez, the unexpected brilliance of Dontrelle Willis, half a season of Cabrera, big trophy. Same thing goes for Detroit. They lost 91 games last year. WS contenders come out of nowhere.
I don’t like trading Kottaras, but if you keep holding out for tomorrow you may sacrifice present success without gaining anything in the future. Look at the great farm system we had in 2001, which largely went to waste. Other teams have assembled great young talent and fizzled. I do wish they’d taken more of a shot at the deadline. Help helps more the longer you have it.
September 1, 2006 at 10:27 am
every playoff team is a World Series contender
September 1, 2006 at 10:32 am
Steve…I am with you…Perceived value is what it is about. on a talent basis, this may not be bad, but on a value basis it is terrible.
In negotiations, perception is reality…If Kotarras is perceived as our #2 prospect, then we should have been able to get a better player than Boomer in the offseason…
September 1, 2006 at 10:33 am
I understand TW but the Marlins and the Tigers also have/had stupid amounts of talent and pitching. I don’t really think the Padres really compare to either team. Maybe next year we have a chance to be the Tigers.
September 1, 2006 at 10:35 am
#20: How many fans are going to turn out for a “We Stuck To Our Principles” parade downtown?
September 1, 2006 at 10:37 am
Tom…I agree with you…that is why you do the Giles deal a couple of years ago every time…two unproven guys for one of the top OF’s in the game…all day long and twice on Sunday.
If you can get a proven major league commodity for prospects, sign me up…but this trade has more hair on it that just a straight up swap.
We are talking about the proven major league talent being on our roster for all of 45-60 days, at most. Like I said this morning, if we do this deal at the begining of the season, or even back in June, sign me up. If it is a July deal, probably. But an August deal? Smells of desperation and is a major mistake. Not b/c Kotarras is God, but because his trade value should have been higher on August 31st. KT needs to go to the Karass Negotiation Seminar.
September 1, 2006 at 10:41 am
Masticore: RE: #5
As someone pointed out yesterday, PTBNL does not mean it will be decided later. It means they just don’t want to tell us and the league offices yet. It is on paper and signed (contractually, rights have been exchanged) and binding. The cash thing is probably the clause your looking for. If Kottaras decides he truly prefers his old beer softball leagues and retires, the Sox can demand an agreed upon amount of cash from the Pads. This is also how the league signs off on the transaction, because the money clause guarantees the satisfaction of the team receiving the PTBNL.
September 1, 2006 at 10:43 am
23: That also begs the question of what other teams thought of Kottaras. Our #2 prospect isn’t such a big deal, our farm system stinks.
24: Nobody thought they had stupid talent/pitching before their winning seasons. In 2003 the Marlins staff was inconsistent pitchers and the untried Willis, who the Cubs never thought much of. This past winter the Tigers paid Kenny Rogers 9 million a season and they were finished by July 4th last season. Few would have expected Verlander to be this good, this soon, or Granderson to bust out, etc. You could say the same thing for the 98 Padres. We came in 4th in 97. Brown was a risky move that paid off huge.
Teams can’t always wait until all their ducks are in a row. At the end of a season, if you have a legitimate chance, it’s worth getting some help. That help may not be worth Kottaras, but you don’t just turn your back on the playoffs because you’re scared of the Mets or the AL champion.
September 1, 2006 at 10:45 am
#25
Probably 3 people less then the “Fat ass 43 year old pitcher is our savior” parade.
September 1, 2006 at 10:50 am
TW Re #21, its not waiting for tomorrow is knowing when you can make a run and when you cant, Kottaras is one of the few chips the pads have to move in the off season for a 3B or any other need they may have.
September 1, 2006 at 10:52 am
26: Largely agreed, CM. I’d much rather have acquired a better than Mike Thompson pitcher in July or a 3b who we control for 2007.
What I disagree with is the idea that we should play the hand we had just because there was no chance of drawing a straight flush. Sometimes 3 of a kind is enough.
The Indians looked like a great bet to make the playoffs this year, young talent, good farm system, couple veterans, everything lined up, then - splat. We’re lucky to find ourselves where we are, and it was a mistake to not do more at the deadline, but since we did get lucky, let’s make the most of it.
I still don’t like losing Kottaras.
September 1, 2006 at 10:56 am
30. We’re leading the wild card. You know how many WC teams have gone deep in the playoffs recently? Lots. You could even go back to the early 70s A’s teams, with “playoff heroes” like Gene Tenance coming out of nowhere. Or the 1985 Royals, who had two hitters in the entire lineup. Strange stuff happens in the playoffs. Nobody, not you, not me, knows who can make a run.
September 1, 2006 at 10:56 am
Wasn’t that the year Dontrelle was rookie of the year? As I remember it Beckett won them that championship and they still had Burnett or Penny (I can’t remember which one was hurt at the time). That sounds like good pitching to me. Maybe they were not the favorite going into the season but by the end of the season they were definitely gaining momentum.
I’m all for helping the team out but Wells can not be compared to Kevin Brown who was basically the best pitcher in the league at the time. I know it can turn around fast and that’s why getting Wells for 2 months at best doesn’t excite me. He gives us nothing for next year.
September 1, 2006 at 10:59 am
29: But 40,000 fewer than would be at Petco for even one playoff game.
Almost nobody thought the 98 Padres would get past Randy Johnson and the Astros. The 98 team was a lot better than the 2006 team, but you only need to win 7 games out of 12 to make the World Series. 11 out of 19 and you’re the world champs.
Wells makes us a little better. We need to be better.
September 1, 2006 at 11:00 am
From the chat with Christina Kahrl goin’ on right now over at BP:
“OrigamiT (The Internets): You’re my source for all trade breakdowns, so Wells for Kotteras. Your thoughts?
Christina Kahrl: Let’s hope not, if you’re a Pads fan. I know there’s some sentiment that it’s payback for Josh Bard, but Kottaras could be a solid everday catcher in The Show, while Jumbo’s just hoping his last five or six regular season starts mean something.”
September 1, 2006 at 11:01 am
#21:
interesting thought about the farm system.
that great 2000-2002 system produced 2 ml regulars (Peavy, Nady/Cameron).
the sucky 2003-present system produced 3.5 (Greene, Barfield, Hensley, Thompson).
which one was really better?
September 1, 2006 at 11:09 am
Nice picture of Padres in a dog pile … http://tinyurl.com/py2kb … AZL Padres win the Arizona League championship! Ah, the magic of 2006 begins
ps. Wonder if Cedric can get promoted to Ft. Wayne and help them win a championship there too?
September 1, 2006 at 11:09 am
33: Yes, that was the year Willis did so well. But if we went by your standards, the Marlins would never have signed Pudge before the season. Too many rookies. Too many unknowns. Lots of competition in the NL East. Same thing goes for Kenny Rogers in Detroit. Why spend 18 million over 2 years when there were so many question marks? New manager, bunch of rookie pitchers, a team that finished next-to-last in a tough division the year before.
We know the Padres are good enough to make the playoffs, and we know that lesser teams have won playoff series. I’d have rather made other trades earlier, but I can’t be too upset about trying to take advantage of being lucky this year.
September 1, 2006 at 11:12 am
36: 2000-2002 gave us half of Giles (Ollie). But we were ranked top 5 in baseball farm systems back then, and it didn’t pan out. Tankersley, Cyr, Howard and more held onto for no return.
September 1, 2006 at 11:18 am
39: ah, forgot about ollie for giles.
I know about the rankings, I just think the contrast between
Burroughs/Tank/Howard/Cyr/Tucker
and
Greene/Barfield/Hensley/Sweeney/Thompson/Adkins/Cassidy
is notable.
you could add Perez to that first list, because what if we kept him. ugly.
September 1, 2006 at 11:21 am
wait, Perez was very good in ‘04, so much so that we might have won the division if we had him. my argument is just full of holes.
September 1, 2006 at 11:23 am
38
What are you taliking about my standards?
I think the Marlins did it perfectly by signing a guy like Pudge before the season. I think the Tigers are doing it perfectly by signine a guy like Kenny Rodgers before the season and Pudge a couple of years ago. I think you mix in key FA with young talent and you can have a real shot at a championship. But all I thought I said was I hate this trade and…
“The only thing I am looking forward to is having money to spend this off-season. Maybe KT can work some magic”
I just think the kottaras trade was terrible waste of resources.
September 1, 2006 at 11:26 am
Save me the Wild Card arguement…we are not talking about a Padres team that compares with the WC teams that made it to the series…
NY Mets 2000 — 94wins
Anaheim 2002 — 99 wins
Florida 2003 — 91 wins
Boston 2004 — 98 wins
Houston 2005 — 89 wins (but they had a staff that would embarass the ‘06 Pads.
Do you see the difference? We are going to win the Wild Card with 85 wins…that is a HUGE gap between us and any of the other teams.
85 wins means you are a little better than most. 90+ wins and you are one of the better teams in the Majors.
September 1, 2006 at 11:27 am
Also from the Christina Karhl chat at BP:
misterjohnny (Los Angeles): What’s a fair price for a David Wells rental?
Christina Kahrl: A bad of microwave burritos to be named later?
I have nothing to add except that this move seems to me to indicate that we now have Russell Branyan as our ‘07 third baseman. How did the Dodgers get Maddux for a sub-replacement level type player and we give up a very good hitting prospect for David Wells in September?
September 1, 2006 at 11:28 am
Friarfan, thanks for the enlightenment, that makes a little more sense now.
September 1, 2006 at 11:33 am
I think even asking us to get 85 wins might be pushing it that means we need to win 17 of 28 from here on out. With this team that’s asking a lot!
September 1, 2006 at 11:35 am
Yankees 2000 — 87wins
Cleveland 1997 — 86wins
Minnesota 1987 — 85wins
NY Mets 1973 — 82wins
rare, but it does happen.
September 1, 2006 at 11:40 am
39, 40: Just a reminder that Howard indirectly netted Cassidy. BTW the org tree is up to date with the latest moves.
September 1, 2006 at 11:42 am
Thanks, Eric, for the reminder that anything can happen once you’re in the playoffs. If I’m not mistaken, that ‘87 Twins team allowed more runs than it scored during the regular season and went on to win it all.
September 1, 2006 at 11:42 am
Believe me, if the Padres were to win a world series I don’t care if they were 82-80 or 120-42 during the regular season.
You’ve gotta be in it to win it. Then, anything can happen.
September 1, 2006 at 11:43 am
2000 Yanks won the AL East…not the WC. Seattle got the WC that year with 91 wins…
1997 Cle did not win the WC, they won the central. The NYY won the WC with 96 wins…
We might stack up with the 2000 yanks…we would not stack up against the 97 Indians or the ‘87 Twins…
Sure, things can happen, but this Padres team cannot hit (especially with RISP), our “Ace” has only looked like an ace on 3 or 4 occasions this season, and we are putting a heckofa lot of faith on 42 year old knees.
September 1, 2006 at 11:47 am
Jim Callis gives his take at Baseball America.
September 1, 2006 at 11:48 am
And David Pinto weighs in at Baseball Musings.
September 1, 2006 at 11:59 am
re 36: Don’t forget we also produced Jason Bartlett & acquired Jason Bay when he was a “nobody” then sent him to Pittsburgh to become an All Star…
September 1, 2006 at 11:59 am
…& Oliver Perez
September 1, 2006 at 12:01 pm
didn’t think of it that way at Baseball musings but that is interesting stuff. and one of the factors all of us forgot other than he’s david wells is that he is a lefty who does normally have great control; the lefty we didn’t have most of this year…. ask Shawn Estes after his one start. Park can’t be epxected to contribute at all yet.
September 1, 2006 at 12:04 pm
38: Your standards are that we need to build a championship-caliber team before worrying about grabbing this chance to make the playoffs. Nobody thought the 2003 Marlins or 2006 Tigers were a championship team. The Marlins, in fact, were struggling for half the season. If they had waited to be sure they’d make the playoffs to sign Pudge or trade for Urbina, they wouldn’t have made the playoffs at all.
43: That’s a pretty fine line, 5 wins separating slightly better than average from one of the best teams in the game. I’d distinguish between an 85 win team and a 95 win team.
Wells doesn’t make us great. He makes us better. And in October, anything can happen.
September 1, 2006 at 12:05 pm
There’s no question that Wells gives us a better chance to make and advance in the playoffs this season. I’ll take my chances with that over waiting to see if Kotteras is actually going to be a productive major league catcher…
September 1, 2006 at 12:09 pm
51: I’m not sure Eric (47) was saying those were WC teams. He was pointing out teams that made the WS despite rather average regular season record.
I don’t believe anyone would say that a WC team must have 90 wins to be successful in the playoffs, but a division champion can get by with 86 or so. Maybe anyone would, but anyone would be hard-put to convince anyone else.
September 1, 2006 at 12:11 pm
re: 52…not exactly a glowing review of Kotteras…he’s a prospect, nothing more. Sean Burroughs was a top prospect…anyone wish we had dumped him in a trade when he was in AA or AAA for a good player who could contribute to help the team make and advance in the playoffs? Or..how many think now that we should’ve traded Ruben Rivera when he was in the minors??
September 1, 2006 at 12:17 pm
60: I’m not anti-Kottaras, but I think people are underestimating the importance of getting to the playoffs. I’d have much rather traded somebody else for Wells, but it seems like people are protesting too much about how they don’t care if we play in October. The Braves have been the best team in the NL many times but been knocked out by inferior competition. It happens.
None of this means I’m not angry about past draft mistakes, Vinny Castilla crapping a 250 at-bat pile of dung, and not doing more at the deadline. But the Padres today are better than they were on Thursday, and that’s worth something.
September 1, 2006 at 12:18 pm
I think what we’re all finding in dissecting these deadline moves is that the closer you look, the more shades of grey you see. Also, I’d much rather be complaining about this type of thing than whether we’re going to break 70 wins and if the guys at Double-A are “all that.” Besides, this isn’t Kazmir for Zambrano. We have a chance and we’re going for it. Good for us.
September 1, 2006 at 12:20 pm
57
Yeah I suppose you’re right. Thanks for the clarification on “my standards”. I was a little foggy on what I think.
So I guess if I’m going by Waits logic then “your standards” are… Be content with marginal or mediocre 85 win teams year after year and maybe if there is a vetran get him for a top prospect or 2 and then hope you get hot or lucky or both simply because it’s been done before and anything can happen.
I prefer the option of building a team and starting with a young core and then pursuing FA’s every year to fill in spots of need as the years go by. I know anything can happen dude but I’m also a realist.
In contrast and I know they are not the same but they are similar, I’m extatic about the way the Chargers are running their organization. I think that team has the opportunity to be great for a long time. It would be nice if the Padres took a tip or two.
I want to build a team that is championship caliber who doesn’t?
September 1, 2006 at 12:24 pm
I’m not anti-Kotteras either…I don’t even know him and I’ve never seen him play. But the reviews certainly make it clear that we didn’t trade Mike Piazza or Johnny Bench in their primes. He sounds like a plof themayer with a decent future. I like the fact that we’re making moves to try and get into the playoffs and advance, Wells makes us a better team in 2006 period.
And Geoff…I completely agree..this is a whole lot more fun than wondering how good the September call ups will perform and can we count on any them for next season…
September 1, 2006 at 12:32 pm
Hopefully Cassidy continues with the same form he’s had at Portland…he’s been unstoppable there except for one bad outing.
September 1, 2006 at 12:33 pm
Judging from the comments, I think you could safely say this trade is controversial. Put me down on the side that I am good with the trade. My belief is that it is “better to take your shot now” philosophy. While we’re all looking forward to next year and beyond, given the $30 million coming off the books, I think we’re close enough to try and get there this year, even at the expense of a catcher “prospect,” a position where we’ve got some depth.
Wells does three things, at least. He’s better than Thompson with some playoff experience and a history that says he can rise to the occasion in a big game. Second, he can instill an immediacy that seems lacking in some of the laid back personalities we have on this team. I remember two years ago when we fell short, Wells was always extolling his teammates to show a little more urgency to the situation. Well, I think that sort of confidence/cockiness/swagger/conscience can help this team.
Third, I think that it offers the players who believed they “got screwed” at the deadline a player that enhances their chance of winning this year.
I seem to remember a lot of comments at the July 31 trade deadline that were to the effect that “we’re tired of hearing that we don’t want to trade away our future.” I think this answers those questions. I’d rather take my chances this year than bet that we win in the future with Kottaras.
September 1, 2006 at 12:36 pm
I just don’t think Wells is actually going to help us all that much. I was pretty sure we had a better team than anyone else in the wild card race, and I don’t think Wells gives us even one full win over Thompson. He’s 43 years old and just not all that great. The Padres are not going to get better long term if they overpay for old pitchers to kind of help the team this year. The only way they can compete long term is by developing young talent; the way free agency works in baseball, most players eligible for free agency have already finished their best years, and those that haven’t are going to sign with the New Yorks and Bostons. Giving up a guy that could be a solid major league starter for a month of, at best, a number 3 starter is just not sound long term planning. And this move, in my opinion, doesn’t even upgrade the postseason staff, because Hensley’s been much better than Wells this season.
September 1, 2006 at 12:38 pm
Oh, and I don’t believe in swagger, or clutchness, or the impact of “clubhouse presence”, or big game experience having any value, etc. So that is another big reason I don’t think Wells helps.
September 1, 2006 at 12:38 pm
63: Don’t blame me for a lack of clarity in your own thinking. What you want is a sure thing BEFORE you take risks, and except for the Yankees, there are no sure things.
As for being content with this team - Have you even been reading what I’ve written on this site for the last year? I’m far from content with this team. I wanted an upgrade over Castilla from the first day he played with us. I’ve been dissatisfied with our draft strategy and development system for years, and this year’s draft didn’t make me any too happy. I wasn’t the one making ridiculous comparisons between Adrian Beltre and Scott Rolen. I’m not even content with trading Kottaras for Wells, but I’m not going to pretend that there’s no upside in it for us.
September 1, 2006 at 12:39 pm
re 67..you can’t really say that you’d rather have Hensley pitching a playoff game over David Wells?
As long as he remains healthy, he makes the team better…there’s no question that he helps us have a better chance to win this season.
September 1, 2006 at 12:42 pm
68: I don’t much believe in those either, but I definitely believe Wells is a better pitcher than Mike Thompson. And we’re going to need all the better we can get just to make the playoffs.
September 1, 2006 at 12:47 pm
I am almost literally ROTFLOL … Yahoo’s sports.yahoo.com/mlb web page has link titled …
Dodgers bolster offense with late trade
Ack! What could that be???
The NL West-leading Los Angeles Dodgers picked up a left-handed bat for the stretch drive late Thursday, acquiring infielder-outfielder Marlon Anderson from the Washington Nationals and cash for pitching prospect Jhonny Nunez.
… oh, whew … it’s just Marlon Anderson! It oughta be a crime to use “bolster offense” and “Marlon Anderson” in the same sentance
(ps. knock on wood)
September 1, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Yes, I would rather have Hensley starting a playoff game than Wells. Hensley is a better pitcher this year than Wells. Hensley has pitched better recently than Wells. I don’t care that back when he was in his prime Wells pitched well in the playoffs. In the here and now, Hensley has pitched better.
The main way Wells helps the team out is in the upgrade over Thompson at the five spot. And if the race comes down to one game, then, yes, it is quite possible that it will have been Wells that gave us that game.
Ok, all arguments about the performance of the people in this trade aside, this is a huge indictment of Kevin Towers’ understanding and working of the market. The Dodgers gave up Caesar Izturis for two month of Greg Maddux (to a team that incidentally already had Neifi Perez and Ronny Cedeno as middle infielders that couldn’t hit). The Padres gave up George Kottaras for a month of David Wells. That is horrible.
September 1, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Yeah what can I say I like Adrian Beltre whatever. I do belive you were the one touting the skills of Bellhorn as an everyday 3rd baseman over Castillia right. Good call dude! I don’t want a sure thing before I take a risk but I want better chances. It’s all about odds for me at this point. Nothing this team has done outside of beating the Dodgers in the past month or two tells me that they are capable of any type of playoff run. I saw what happened last year when you take a bad team to the playoffs. I think we need a 3rd baseman because your boy Bellhorn along with Blum and Walker and Branyon are not impressing me and I think Kottaras was the main way we were going to get someone legit. It didn’t/doesn’t make sense to me with all this money coming off the books next year that we would waste our only real good looking prospect now on someone that doesn’t factor into the future. Is that crazy? Whatever dude I’m over this. Bitching about something that is done is sorta silly and I want to have a decent friday without getting more pissed off about this topic.
September 1, 2006 at 1:00 pm
73: Hensley and Wells have been nearly identical in August. I’d wait until the end of the season to decide which one will throw in the playoffs.
The market thing, yeah. We were too complacent at the deadline.
September 1, 2006 at 1:05 pm
74: Bellhorn over Castilla, yes, and that’s still true. Because Bellhorn has hit better and played better defense. Disagree? Numbers don’t lie. He’s hit better and fielded better. Between the two, I’d use the better player. But that’s just me, I like to give my team the best chance to win. Sorta odd that way.
But notice that I wasn’t saying “Wow, if you look at it the right way, Mark Bellhorn isn’t that much different than David Wright!”
Last year’s Padre team in the playoffs is one example. There are other examples of a mediocre team winning a playoff series.
All the money coming off the books doesn’t seem like a reason to hold onto young, cheap players. It seems like it liberates you to fill holes in free agency or trading for expensive players.
September 1, 2006 at 1:07 pm
I guess i would wait until the end of the season to see who would pitch in the playoffs, but I can’t help but put a pretty premium on playoff experience that David Wells brings over Hensley.
September 1, 2006 at 1:19 pm
73: In the interest of fairness, we should also note that the Dodgers gave up Joel Guzman for Julio Lugo.
74: Kottaras wasn’t our only real good looking prospect. He was probably our most advanced, but there are guys coming up through the ranks that have potential.
Man, this is great. I love it when September matters.
September 1, 2006 at 1:32 pm
78 -
I remember hearing/reading several times yesterday (not sure where) that there are many in the Padres organization who feel that Nick Hundley had actually passed Kottaras in favor as a catching prospect. If this is the case, and they (Alderson, Fuson, DePodesta, Towers) feel that Hundley will be better in the bigs (albeit 2 or 3 more years down the road compared to Kottaras), then this deal makes a little more sense.
September 1, 2006 at 1:38 pm
Hmm, ok, I’m coming down off the ledge. I still think it was a bad deal because it limits the options to acquire a 3B this offseason, and it seems like such a ridiculous price to pay for a 43 yr old starting pitcher when Maddux was acquired for Izturis. But, it’s done now, go Padres, only time will tell if we got completely hosed, and I will root for Wells to pitch five perfect games for us in September. Go Padres!
September 1, 2006 at 1:39 pm
I just posted a bit of a different take on the Kottaras trade…
http://padresrundown.blogspot.com
September 1, 2006 at 1:40 pm
78: Yeah, I forgot about that. Or the ransom the Reds gave up for relievers.
I’m glad that September matters, but next year let’s try to have a 9 game lead.
September 1, 2006 at 1:51 pm
82. Can I get an amen from the congregation on that last sentiment?
September 1, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Well, I just read this in the Union Tribune: “In July, Towers showed interest in acquiring Cubs pitcher Greg Maddux, perhaps, in part, to drive up the Dodgers’ price (Los Angeles got Maddux for shortstop Cesar Izturis). Towers said the price the Cubs demanded of him for Maddux was greater, by one secondary prospect, than what he gave to get