Friday before Labor Day? Yeah, there’s a little bit going on right now. We’re still talking about the David Wells deal, we’ve got the favorite restaurants near Petco Park thread going, and now we’ve got links. Go nuts (if you haven’t already):
David Wells Stuff
- Padres add Wells for stretch run (Padres.com)
- Padres re-acquire Wells from Red Sox (San Diego Union-Tribune)
- Padres bring back ‘Boomer’ for stretch drive (North County Times). According to Shaun O’Neill, “Unofficially, club sources confirmed the player [to be named later] is Triple-A catcher George Kottaras.”
- Why Does The Rest Of The Country Think We Are Idiots? (San Diego Spotlight). Like the rest of us, Rich Campbell is having trouble believing that Kottaras is the price the Padres will pay to bring Wells home. We’ll all have to wait and see.
- Wells to San Diego? (Padres Run Down). Peter Friberg is part of the chorus as well wondering how six weeks of a 43-year-old pitcher is worth your best position prospect. He also gets a kick out of ESPN’s characterization of Kottaras as a “solid defender” (be sure to read the comments for LynchMob’s explanation of that phenomenon).
- Towel Meets Floor. Because, Y’know… Someone Threw It In (Surviving Grady). Surprisingly little reaction from the Beantown contingent. One Red Sox fan is bummed to see Wells leave Boston, although not for the reasons you’d necessarily expect.
Other Stuff
- After acquiring Nevin in May, Cubs trade him to Twins (ESPN). Apparently the Padres were making a play for bringing Phil Nevin back to San Diego. Maybe we’ll get to face him in the World Series.
- By Popular Demand… NL Playoff Odds (ArmchairGM). Ooh, pretty charts. [via Baseball Musings.]
- Parity and the National League (Baseball Analysts). David Pinto drops in for a guest spot. He’s not impressed with the NL. One of the things I really like about the NL is that there’s at least the illusion of free will. If you follow the AL and you’re not a fan of the Yankees or Red Sox, you’re most likely hosed. How fun is that? This reminds me, next time someone asks you which of those two clubs you prefer, tell them “whichever is playing the Giants” and watch their mind explode. Good times.
- Places I Didn’t Like (MtDewVirus). Speaking of former Padres, it’s nice to see Doug Mirabelli putting his art skills to work.
Wild-card contender Reds are in town for three starting tonight. IGD will be up at 6 p.m. PT. Happy Friday and go Padres!
2000 Yanks won the AL East…not the WC. Seattle got the WC that year with 91 wins…
1997 Cle did not win the WC, they won the central. The NYY won the WC with 96 wins…
We might stack up with the 2000 yanks…we would not stack up against the 97 Indians or the ’87 Twins…
Sure, things can happen, but this Padres team cannot hit (especially with RISP), our “Ace” has only looked like an ace on 3 or 4 occasions this season, and we are putting a heckofa lot of faith on 42 year old knees.
Jim Callis gives his take at Baseball America.
And David Pinto weighs in at Baseball Musings.
re 36: Don’t forget we also produced Jason Bartlett & acquired Jason Bay when he was a “nobody” then sent him to Pittsburgh to become an All Star…
…& Oliver Perez
didn’t think of it that way at Baseball musings but that is interesting stuff. and one of the factors all of us forgot other than he’s david wells is that he is a lefty who does normally have great control; the lefty we didn’t have most of this year…. ask Shawn Estes after his one start. Park can’t be epxected to contribute at all yet.
38: Your standards are that we need to build a championship-caliber team before worrying about grabbing this chance to make the playoffs. Nobody thought the 2003 Marlins or 2006 Tigers were a championship team. The Marlins, in fact, were struggling for half the season. If they had waited to be sure they’d make the playoffs to sign Pudge or trade for Urbina, they wouldn’t have made the playoffs at all.
43: That’s a pretty fine line, 5 wins separating slightly better than average from one of the best teams in the game. I’d distinguish between an 85 win team and a 95 win team.
Wells doesn’t make us great. He makes us better. And in October, anything can happen.
There’s no question that Wells gives us a better chance to make and advance in the playoffs this season. I’ll take my chances with that over waiting to see if Kotteras is actually going to be a productive major league catcher…
51: I’m not sure Eric (47) was saying those were WC teams. He was pointing out teams that made the WS despite rather average regular season record.
I don’t believe anyone would say that a WC team must have 90 wins to be successful in the playoffs, but a division champion can get by with 86 or so. Maybe anyone would, but anyone would be hard-put to convince anyone else.
re: 52…not exactly a glowing review of Kotteras…he’s a prospect, nothing more. Sean Burroughs was a top prospect…anyone wish we had dumped him in a trade when he was in AA or AAA for a good player who could contribute to help the team make and advance in the playoffs? Or..how many think now that we should’ve traded Ruben Rivera when he was in the minors??
60: I’m not anti-Kottaras, but I think people are underestimating the importance of getting to the playoffs. I’d have much rather traded somebody else for Wells, but it seems like people are protesting too much about how they don’t care if we play in October. The Braves have been the best team in the NL many times but been knocked out by inferior competition. It happens.
None of this means I’m not angry about past draft mistakes, Vinny Castilla crapping a 250 at-bat pile of dung, and not doing more at the deadline. But the Padres today are better than they were on Thursday, and that’s worth something.
I think what we’re all finding in dissecting these deadline moves is that the closer you look, the more shades of grey you see. Also, I’d much rather be complaining about this type of thing than whether we’re going to break 70 wins and if the guys at Double-A are “all that.” Besides, this isn’t Kazmir for Zambrano. We have a chance and we’re going for it. Good for us.
57
Yeah I suppose you’re right. Thanks for the clarification on “my standards”. I was a little foggy on what I think.
So I guess if I’m going by Waits logic then “your standards” are… Be content with marginal or mediocre 85 win teams year after year and maybe if there is a vetran get him for a top prospect or 2 and then hope you get hot or lucky or both simply because it’s been done before and anything can happen.
I prefer the option of building a team and starting with a young core and then pursuing FA’s every year to fill in spots of need as the years go by. I know anything can happen dude but I’m also a realist.
In contrast and I know they are not the same but they are similar, I’m extatic about the way the Chargers are running their organization. I think that team has the opportunity to be great for a long time. It would be nice if the Padres took a tip or two.
I want to build a team that is championship caliber who doesn’t?
I’m not anti-Kotteras either…I don’t even know him and I’ve never seen him play. But the reviews certainly make it clear that we didn’t trade Mike Piazza or Johnny Bench in their primes. He sounds like a plof themayer with a decent future. I like the fact that we’re making moves to try and get into the playoffs and advance, Wells makes us a better team in 2006 period.
And Geoff…I completely agree..this is a whole lot more fun than wondering how good the September call ups will perform and can we count on any them for next season…
Hopefully Cassidy continues with the same form he’s had at Portland…he’s been unstoppable there except for one bad outing.
Judging from the comments, I think you could safely say this trade is controversial. Put me down on the side that I am good with the trade. My belief is that it is “better to take your shot now” philosophy. While we’re all looking forward to next year and beyond, given the $30 million coming off the books, I think we’re close enough to try and get there this year, even at the expense of a catcher “prospect,” a position where we’ve got some depth.
Wells does three things, at least. He’s better than Thompson with some playoff experience and a history that says he can rise to the occasion in a big game. Second, he can instill an immediacy that seems lacking in some of the laid back personalities we have on this team. I remember two years ago when we fell short, Wells was always extolling his teammates to show a little more urgency to the situation. Well, I think that sort of confidence/cockiness/swagger/conscience can help this team.
Third, I think that it offers the players who believed they “got screwed” at the deadline a player that enhances their chance of winning this year.
I seem to remember a lot of comments at the July 31 trade deadline that were to the effect that “we’re tired of hearing that we don’t want to trade away our future.” I think this answers those questions. I’d rather take my chances this year than bet that we win in the future with Kottaras.
I just don’t think Wells is actually going to help us all that much. I was pretty sure we had a better team than anyone else in the wild card race, and I don’t think Wells gives us even one full win over Thompson. He’s 43 years old and just not all that great. The Padres are not going to get better long term if they overpay for old pitchers to kind of help the team this year. The only way they can compete long term is by developing young talent; the way free agency works in baseball, most players eligible for free agency have already finished their best years, and those that haven’t are going to sign with the New Yorks and Bostons. Giving up a guy that could be a solid major league starter for a month of, at best, a number 3 starter is just not sound long term planning. And this move, in my opinion, doesn’t even upgrade the postseason staff, because Hensley’s been much better than Wells this season.
Oh, and I don’t believe in swagger, or clutchness, or the impact of “clubhouse presence”, or big game experience having any value, etc. So that is another big reason I don’t think Wells helps.
63: Don’t blame me for a lack of clarity in your own thinking. What you want is a sure thing BEFORE you take risks, and except for the Yankees, there are no sure things.
As for being content with this team – Have you even been reading what I’ve written on this site for the last year? I’m far from content with this team. I wanted an upgrade over Castilla from the first day he played with us. I’ve been dissatisfied with our draft strategy and development system for years, and this year’s draft didn’t make me any too happy. I wasn’t the one making ridiculous comparisons between Adrian Beltre and Scott Rolen. I’m not even content with trading Kottaras for Wells, but I’m not going to pretend that there’s no upside in it for us.
re 67..you can’t really say that you’d rather have Hensley pitching a playoff game over David Wells?
As long as he remains healthy, he makes the team better…there’s no question that he helps us have a better chance to win this season.
68: I don’t much believe in those either, but I definitely believe Wells is a better pitcher than Mike Thompson. And we’re going to need all the better we can get just to make the playoffs.
I am almost literally ROTFLOL … Yahoo’s sports.yahoo.com/mlb web page has link titled …
Dodgers bolster offense with late trade
Ack! What could that be???
The NL West-leading Los Angeles Dodgers picked up a left-handed bat for the stretch drive late Thursday, acquiring infielder-outfielder Marlon Anderson from the Washington Nationals and cash for pitching prospect Jhonny Nunez.
… oh, whew … it’s just Marlon Anderson! It oughta be a crime to use “bolster offense” and “Marlon Anderson” in the same sentance
(ps. knock on wood)
Yes, I would rather have Hensley starting a playoff game than Wells. Hensley is a better pitcher this year than Wells. Hensley has pitched better recently than Wells. I don’t care that back when he was in his prime Wells pitched well in the playoffs. In the here and now, Hensley has pitched better.
The main way Wells helps the team out is in the upgrade over Thompson at the five spot. And if the race comes down to one game, then, yes, it is quite possible that it will have been Wells that gave us that game.
Ok, all arguments about the performance of the people in this trade aside, this is a huge indictment of Kevin Towers’ understanding and working of the market. The Dodgers gave up Caesar Izturis for two month of Greg Maddux (to a team that incidentally already had Neifi Perez and Ronny Cedeno as middle infielders that couldn’t hit). The Padres gave up George Kottaras for a month of David Wells. That is horrible.
Yeah what can I say I like Adrian Beltre whatever. I do belive you were the one touting the skills of Bellhorn as an everyday 3rd baseman over Castillia right. Good call dude! I don’t want a sure thing before I take a risk but I want better chances. It’s all about odds for me at this point. Nothing this team has done outside of beating the Dodgers in the past month or two tells me that they are capable of any type of playoff run. I saw what happened last year when you take a bad team to the playoffs. I think we need a 3rd baseman because your boy Bellhorn along with Blum and Walker and Branyon are not impressing me and I think Kottaras was the main way we were going to get someone legit. It didn’t/doesn’t make sense to me with all this money coming off the books next year that we would waste our only real good looking prospect now on someone that doesn’t factor into the future. Is that crazy? Whatever dude I’m over this. Bitching about something that is done is sorta silly and I want to have a decent friday without getting more pissed off about this topic.
73: Hensley and Wells have been nearly identical in August. I’d wait until the end of the season to decide which one will throw in the playoffs.
The market thing, yeah. We were too complacent at the deadline.
74: Bellhorn over Castilla, yes, and that’s still true. Because Bellhorn has hit better and played better defense. Disagree? Numbers don’t lie. He’s hit better and fielded better. Between the two, I’d use the better player. But that’s just me, I like to give my team the best chance to win. Sorta odd that way.
But notice that I wasn’t saying “Wow, if you look at it the right way, Mark Bellhorn isn’t that much different than David Wright!”
Last year’s Padre team in the playoffs is one example. There are other examples of a mediocre team winning a playoff series.
All the money coming off the books doesn’t seem like a reason to hold onto young, cheap players. It seems like it liberates you to fill holes in free agency or trading for expensive players.
I guess i would wait until the end of the season to see who would pitch in the playoffs, but I can’t help but put a pretty premium on playoff experience that David Wells brings over Hensley.
73: In the interest of fairness, we should also note that the Dodgers gave up Joel Guzman for Julio Lugo.
74: Kottaras wasn’t our only real good looking prospect. He was probably our most advanced, but there are guys coming up through the ranks that have potential.
Man, this is great. I love it when September matters.
78 -
I remember hearing/reading several times yesterday (not sure where) that there are many in the Padres organization who feel that Nick Hundley had actually passed Kottaras in favor as a catching prospect. If this is the case, and they (Alderson, Fuson, DePodesta, Towers) feel that Hundley will be better in the bigs (albeit 2 or 3 more years down the road compared to Kottaras), then this deal makes a little more sense.
Hmm, ok, I’m coming down off the ledge. I still think it was a bad deal because it limits the options to acquire a 3B this offseason, and it seems like such a ridiculous price to pay for a 43 yr old starting pitcher when Maddux was acquired for Izturis. But, it’s done now, go Padres, only time will tell if we got completely hosed, and I will root for Wells to pitch five perfect games for us in September. Go Padres!
I just posted a bit of a different take on the Kottaras trade…
http://padresrundown.blogspot.com
78: Yeah, I forgot about that. Or the ransom the Reds gave up for relievers.
I’m glad that September matters, but next year let’s try to have a 9 game lead.
82. Can I get an amen from the congregation on that last sentiment?
Well, I just read this in the Union Tribune: “In July, Towers showed interest in acquiring Cubs pitcher Greg Maddux, perhaps, in part, to drive up the Dodgers’ price (Los Angeles got Maddux for shortstop Cesar Izturis). Towers said the price the Cubs demanded of him for Maddux was greater, by one secondary prospect, than what he gave to get Wells. ”
I think this just confirms how horrible Cubs management is if they took Izturis despite asking for Kottaras + from the Padres. Wow. Maybe they were already talking to the Tigers about trading Neifi, so they figured they desperately needed someone to replace him.
Tom…Re: #76?? What the heck are you talking about???
Castilla hit .232/.260/.319 with 23 rbi, 4 hr’s, 46k’s in 254 ab’s with the Pads…
Bellhorn .163/280/.250 with 6 rbi, 2 hr’s, and 32k’s in 104 ab’s since Castilla left…
You sure you would still prefer Bellhorn over Castilla?
Yes, I was and still support dropping Vinny….No, they pads did not handle it well…but to say “Bellhorn over Castilla, yes, and that’s still true. Because Bellhorn has hit better and played better defense. Disagree? Numbers don’t lie. He’s hit better and fielded better. ”
Craziness!!!
On a completely different note, anyone have an update on Klesko? Might he help us down the stretch? All jokes aside, I wouldn’t mind having his bat on the bench if he can swing and is mostly healthy.
Last I heard he was at Lake Elsinore, but got hurt diving while playing 1B.
I’m unsure about the trade (Geoff’s earlier comments about many shades of grey nailed it), but the more important thing for me is that the Pads are playing meaningful September games for the third year in a row. I’m going Saturday night to see Peavy and the Chicken, and I’m trenedously fired up.
oops, make that “tremendously”.
85: I don’t discount what Bellhorn did before Castilla was cut. Bellhorn hasn’t played well, but he has almost a 70 point edge in OPS, 4 more HR, more total bases, in fewer at-bats. If you want to say that Bellhorn’s last 104 at-bats make his first 120 at-bats meaningless, then I’ll take Vinny’s May (423 OPS) and July (484) and drop his June, when miraculously got a 716.
As bad as Bellhorn has been, he’s still outplayed Castilla. And that’s with losing time, justifiably, to Walker/Blum/Branyan, while Castilla had the luxury of playing everyday no matter how bad he was. So yeah, Bellhorn has been better. But I’m glad to have Branyan and Walker.
Pete Re: it is Mike Ekstrom (not Matt). I really think he has a lot of major league potential (excellent control). In addition, his fastball has picked up a little bit of pop recently and even though his AA numbers don’t look all that good, compare it to his run support (1.86 runs per game, yikes). He is not quite a stud, but gettin’ close. He has won his last 3 starts and if you take away a few bad starts in the middle of this year (AA), his numbers look very good.
Pete, that was regarding your prospect list mentioned post #81
From the Providence Jounal: “A major-league source said Kottaras, a 20th round draft pick in 2002, has a chance to be a good No. 2 catcher in the big leagues, with an outside chance to become a regular.”
From the Boston Globe: “Kottaras, 23, is 6 feet, 190 pounds, and considered an average receiver and a patient hitter, which fits into the Sox philosophy. Scouts are torn on his readiness for the majors, however, some feeling he needs to toughen up and learn to call a game.”
Hardly glowing reports from the east regarding what the Sox received in the trade.
73: What you overlook is that Bochy is an imbecile and would almost certainly start Woody over Clay. However, he will likely start Wells over Woody and that is a DEFINITE upgrade.
just a hypothetical, even if it is kottaras, can’t he still be called up since he’s on the 40man
Wells is wearing 21 by the way.
re: 87 — I think David Wells is starting Saturday, not Peavy.
This morning on 1090 Bochy told Wells he would start Sunday. Wells said that was fine since he needed a day or two to adjust to the time difference.