Cardboard Gods offers a nice riff on Garry Templeton. It kills me that Templeton is the best shortstop in Padres history, especially when I read stuff like this:
I like to imagine that at some point during the twilight years of his career Garry Templeton began games by loping onto the field and then dropping arthritically to the ground near the pitcher’s rosin bag to do a slow, lopsided somersault. But he probably just jogged out there like everybody else. Anyway, whatever he did, after a while nobody really paid attention, except for the occasional prick who pointed at him, as I am doing now, and said, “Hey, there’s Garry Templeton. He was once traded for the Wizard of Oz.”
What an eloquent way of encapsulating Templeton’s career with the Padres. I want to offer some defense, but the best I can do is shrug my shoulders and walk away mumbling.
. . .
Speaking of disappointments, how was Robbie Beckett ever considered a prospect? There’s being patient, and then there’s being stubborn. Beckett, in case you’ve forgotten, was the Pads’ first-round pick in 1990. He spent all of 1991-1993 at two different levels of A-ball doing, um…
| IP | W-L | ERA | WHIP | H/9 | BB/9 | SO/9 | HR/9 | WP/9 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 314 | 8-28 | 6.31 | 1.967 | 7.66 | 10.04 | 9.50 | 0.46 | 1.87 |
Unbelievably, this got Beckett promoted to Double-A in 1994. Question: Can you even imagine stepping up to the plate against someone with his line? The rightmost column in the above table is wild pitches per nine innings, if that helps.
Well since not many people would defend the Templeton-Smith trade I thought I would play Devil’s advocate and point out a few things
Positives for Tempe:
Prior to the trade Templeton was mashing the ball in 6 seasons with the Cardinals he had 302 Avg. | 911 hits | 138 SBs
He was a proven player and probabbly the best offensive shorstop of that time period. I think the only career offensive categories Ozzie is better them Tempe are OBP and SB’s
Negatives for Ozzie:
Only batted over 300 1 time in his career.
First four years with the Padres were not impressive at all, OBP hovered around .300. The only thing that was impressive besides Ozzies defense was his good eye and he was a good baserunner.
Personal analyis:
Ozzie blossomed later then Templeton. But career offensive numbers lean towards Templeton. I think the primary difference between the two is Ozzie has a WS ring and Tempe doesn’t. Looking at Ozzies world series stats..in 13 games he only had 6 runs, 2 RBI, and about a .220 batting average.
With all that said, I lked both of these guys but have a heart for anyone that played the majority of their career with the Padres. Based on their career’s prior to the trade I probabbly would of made the trade as well.
Thanks for the link, GY … I’m a Garry Templeton fan … his 200-hit seasons with the Cardinals were awesome … one of them, iirc, was 100+ hits from both sides of the plate! At the time of the trade, it was a *steal* for the Padres … but in retrospect, it’s clear to me that the Cardinals could see that he was aging faster than average and that Ozzie would be the better long-term player for them (ie. their style of play on the home-field-turf in a pitchers-park would really get full value out of Ozzie’s defensive skills).
THE Garry Templeton hightlight for me, stop me if you heard me say this before, was off-the-field … prior to Game 3 of the 1984 NLCS … during the player intro’s … Tempe whip’d his cap to get the crowd into a pre-game frenzy that I’ve always felt impacted that turning-point game … the Padres were down 2-0 to the Cubs at the moment of Tempe’s out-of-character outburst of spirit … and, well, we know the-rest-of-the-story … Games 4 & 5 of that 1984 NLCS are moments that are yet to be exceeded for this Padre fan …
I honestly do not believe that a 1984 Padres team with Ozzie instead of Tempe would have been NL champions … so I’m glad the Padres made that trade … that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it
Back in the mid to late 80′s, late in the season, I’m with a buddy at the Murph (back then) sitting in the last row of field level down the 3rd base line, watching the Pads/Dodgers. Both teams were out of the race by then. Tempy’s up and hits a foul ball down the 3rd base side. Everyone stands up, except me, and I lose track of the ball. I saw it again, just as it was going over our heads about 8 rows back and I turned to follow it. Back in those days, not enough fans showed up to fill those seats. The ball hit a seatback and caromed directly into my right hand. Didn’t stand up. Didn’t spill my beer. Didn’t make the Jumbotron.
I gave that ball to my 6 year old who was throwing it around the yard and lost it in the ice plant, never to be seen again. So much for the Tempy memorabilia.
Agree with Lynch — The Padres don’t go to the postseason in ’84 with Ozzie at short.
The 84 Padres won the NL West by 12 games. Tempy wasn’t close to 12 games better than Ozzie. In fact he was worse.
Smith’s OPS+ that year was 96, Tempy = 79. A 312 OBP and 320 SLG will do that to you. Go to WARP and it’s 7.3 for Smith, 4.6 for Gar-ry….TemmmPULlton, as the announcer used to say it.
I think what LM was saying was that the Padres don’t beat the Cubs in the NLCS with Templeton. That may be true, Tempy had a good series in addition to his hat-waving intangibles.
TW – thanks for the fact check … I was saying both … but was forgetting that the Padres won the division by 12 games … so now I’ll stick to thinking just in terms of the NLCS
Holy Cow … .312/.320 OBP/SLG … that’s HARD to believe … but I looked it up and there it is … OUCH … that SUCKs … and he won the Silver Slugger award???
Hmmm, Ozzie only played 124 games in 1984 … which might explain why he didn’t win the SS … I s’pose …
A quick look turns up Hubie Brooks as a more deserving SS (OPS+ = 114) … which he did in ’85 and ’86 …
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/silver_slugger_nl.shtml
Hi, all! Although this is completely off topic with the current Templeton/Oz discussion, Gaslampball is having a meet-up this Saturday at Woodstock’s! Check their site if you’re interested.
And another off topic comment in regards to the Ducksnort Spring Training meet-up. I’ve gotten another glowing review for Dillon’s BBQ. I’m up for that grub if the rest of us are!
People forget just how bad a hitter Ozzie was back then. Here are his career numbers w/the Padres:
__AB__BA_ OBP_SLG_OPS+
2236 .231 .295 .278 66
Compare with Tim Lollar:
_AB__BA_ OBP_SLG_OPS+
229 .231 .284 .376 86
Lollar actually hit more homers in one month (April 1982) than Ozzie did in four full seasons with the Padres.
re: Lollar … LOL!!! That guy was one of my favorite players … the dude could RAKE!!! Then as a pitcher in the ’84 post-season, he just seemed out of gas … http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lollati01.shtml
In fact, I just plunked down $10 to sponsor’s Lollar’s page at b-r.com for a year … seemed like a good way to honor 1984
GY … hope you don’t mind that I linked my sponsoship to ducksnorts.com … the sponsorship-signup page indicated that that would show up on the web site within a couple of days …
Do I mind? Of course not! Thanks for the shout-out.
I have long maintained that Ozzie-for-Templeton was the worst trade in franchise history. Some have said this is overstatement because at least the Padres received a “capable” player. But it’s not because they lost the best defensive shortstop of all time. And after the trade, Ozzie was better offensively, too.
Templeton was a clubhouse cancer who tried to undermine Tony Gwynn. Templeton and Jack Clark were terrible leaders in 1989.
I can’t believe people are finding ways to praise Templeton (cap-waving) in Gwynn’s Hall of Fame year. Ozzie actually did tangible things (run-saving).
12: I don’t remember Templeton being part of the anti-Gwynn crowd. I thought it was Clark the Jackhole and Pagliarulo the other Jackhole. It resulted in some racial tension, which seems less likely if another black guy had been involved.
It surprises me how bad a hitter Templeton was for most of his career. I remembered him as more of an offense-first SS.
Kevin … I didn’t go out looking for a way to praise Garry Templeton, it found me … it’s a strong memory of mine from 1984. I have not lived in San Diego since 1981 … and in pre-internet days getting info on who any “clubhouse cancer”s were was hard to do … and now, for me, it’s way past time to judge him on that basis (ie. my fond, if naive, memories are well entrenched). Perhaps if Tony Gwynn dis’ him in his HOF induction speech, then I’ll try harder to expunge those memories …
I’m not trying to crap on anyone’s memories. I just think Templeton was a poor baseball player for the Padres.
Kevin … It’s fair to say the facts are on your side … much to my surprise …
Yeah, I was a Padres fan in 1984, too. It’s also fair to say any player on that team deserves a little love.
This same debate popped up last month – Tempy’s value as a Pad and the Ozzie trade. I have one thing to say regarding Ozzie’s added bat production – tartan turf baby. tartan turf. Irony is that it shot Tempy’s knees and it put 40 points on to the Wizards batting average.
be nice!