I’ve got a few more thoughts on Bruce Bochy’s defection to the San Francisco Giants. These probably will continue to develop over the coming weeks, but here’s where I’m at right now:
- I still really like Sandy Alderson’s policy of allowing his employees the freedom to explore other opportunities if they so desire. Sometimes they might take you up on the offer, but Alderson’s policy places the responsibility of an individual’s happiness squarely on that individual’s shoulders. It invites folks to take a look around and see what else is out there. For as sorry as I am to see Bochy leave on many levels (especially to a division rival), I’d hate to think that he or anyone else would be staying in a situation that didn’t bring the kind of fullfillment they might be able to find elsewhere. You don’t want to lose employees; at the same time, you don’t necessarily want to hang onto employees that aren’t happy. Seems like a win-win policy to me, even if it hurts to lose a guy who’s been with the company a long time. A fresh start might be good for Bochy, and I hope he is able to lead the Giants to many second- and third-place finishes during his tenure in San Francisco.
- One of the things Bochy did extremely well in 2006 was manage his catching situation. He got tremendous production out of Mike Piazza, whom many observers figured was done, at least as a catcher. Piazza and the Padres have an $8 million mutual option for 2007. It seemed unlikely that the option would be picked up, but I thought the Padres and Piazza might be able to work something out at a lower price. With the departure of Bochy, whose careful use of the veteran backstop was a key factor in Piazza’s success, the chances of the future Hall of Famer returning for another season have diminished.
- I am fascinated to see who the Padres will bring in as Bochy’s replacement. The names being bandied about are Angels’ pitching coach Bud Black (SDSU alum who gets Tony Gwynn’s endorsement), Giants’ bench coach Ron Wotus, and now Cardinals’ third-base coach Jose Oquendo. None of the candidates has managerial experience at the big-league level. In fact, GM Kevin Towers claims that, “As of right now, no one on our list is a former big league manager.” This rules out Alan Trammell, who was thrown into the mix on a local radio show. Black’s “statistical savvy” is a point working in his favor, while less has been said about former infielders Wotus and Oquendo. As for a timetable, Towers, who has never hired a big-league manager, expects the process to take 2-3 weeks. Shaun O’Neill at the North County Times has a list of potential candidates, including Trey Hillman, who just led the Nippon Ham Fighters to a championship in Japan.
- One of the ideas from Moneyball, which focused on the Oakland A’s and their general manager, Billy Beane, an Alderson protege, is that the field manager is a position of middle management whose purpose is to execute the desires of the front office. Historically, I’m not sure that’s how most baseball managers have perceived their roles. Without being real close to the situation myself, I’ve gotten the impression that Beane’s two managers, Art Howe and Ken Macha, weren’t necessarily thrilled to be someone else’s puppet (or even to be thought of as such). I guess my question is, are there any field managers out there who would relish a role that might be considered less prestigious, for lack of a better word, than that enjoyed by managers of most other teams. I suppose it shouldn’t matter because the manager is just another employee, but this gets back to the whole happiness thing. If a guy isn’t happy with his job, will he be able to put forth the best effort in trying to help the team reach its goals? None of this is hypothetical; I honestly don’t know the answer, but this strikes me as one of the more difficult aspects of Moneyball to implement in the real world, with real people.
- As Jay noted in the comments on Friday, the Padres cannot afford to lose pitching coach Darren Balsley. The work that he, Darrel Akerfelds, and Mark Merila have done with the pitching staff doesn’t always make headlines, but shouldn’t be underestimated. I haven’t run any numbers (and frankly, I’m not sure where I’d start), but anecdotally, I’ve always been impressed by the way Balsley works with his pitchers — even back to the days when he had guys like Jake Peavy, Oliver Perez, and Mike Thompson under his tutelage at Class A Lake Elsinore. Balsley seems to have a good rapport with the young pitchers and, perhaps even more impressively for someone who is barely into his 40s, commands respect among the veterans. I would hate to see him follow Bochy out of town.
- I’m not sure I understand why the Padres won’t receive any compensation for losing Bochy to a division rival. In the comments on Thursday evening, Peter Friberg presented a nifty list of minor-league relievers that the Padres might have been able to extract from their rivals to the north, but no such luck. Maybe someone who is more well versed in the way these things works can help with this.
Okay, I’ve rattled on long enough. Here’s what some other folks are saying:
- Bochy Out (Padres RunDown). Peter, like many of us, has mixed feelings. He also expected the Padres to receive some compensation as part of the deal (hence his list of relievers above).
- Hey Boss? Just Wanted To Let You Know… (San Diego Spotlight). Rich Campbell compares Bochy’s situation to those of Joe Girardi, fired by the Florida Marlins after improbably keeping a club with virtually no payroll in the hunt into September; Ken Macha, who was let go when the A’s failed to reach the World Series; and Joe Torre, whose departure was rumored the moment the Yankees were eliminated from this year’s playoffs. Torre was granted a reprieve by his employer, but Girardi and Macha were not so lucky and had no say in choosing their own destiny. Bochy, while still under contract with the Padres, was given the opportunity to find a better situation if he felt he could. We should all be so fortunate.
- Alderson forces Bruce Bochy to leave (Gaslamp Ball). Jbox gives his take, and it’s pretty self-explanatory. I disagree with most of the post, but like jbox, I’ll miss Bochy. It really will be weird not having him in the home dugout at Petco Park.
- Loyalty to vets hastened exit (San Diego Union-Tribune). Tom Krasovic points to Bochy’s inability to work youngsters Xavier Nady and Ben Johnson into the lineup the past couple seasons. Here’s a passage I find fascinating: “Alderson, who took over in May 2005, is perceived by many as the impetus behind Bochy’s departure, but, in fact, fractures had grown between Bochy and his friend/longtime boss Kevin Towers.”
- Players regret ex-skipper’s departure (San Diego Union-Tribune). Bill Center talks to several current and former players about Bochy’s departure. Dave Roberts makes the most sense to me: “I think this organization itself is trying to figure out what direction it’s going. I think this was a move that was best for Bochy and his family. It’s a great opportunity.”
- Differences led to Bochy’s departure (North County Times). One thing that’s becoming apparent is that there’s going to be plenty of blame going around for this. Shaun O’Neill cites the Moneyball style limits on Bochy’s authority as a key reason behind his decision to leave. Quoth Alderson: “There’s no reason a manager ought not to be open to new ideas or information.” It may sound cold, but the man has a point.
Thoughts? I supsect you may have a few… 
I think SF is a much better fit for Bochy. Even if they decide to go younger, which I won’t believe until they actually do it, they still strike me as more of an old school organization.
Any chance that Bud Black steps on Ballsley’s toes with the pitching staff? I agree, Balls is too valuable to lose. I’ve never heard anything but praise for the guy. I’d hate to see him clash with another former pitching coach when it comes to handling the staff.
I obviously have no inside information on the Billy Beane situation but I think the whole “middle management” concept is something that could work if the guy at the top has some tact and people skills. If you basically tell your manager he’s going to be your lackey then obviously it’s not going to work out. If you bring in a young guy like Black and he’s on the same philosophical page and understands that he’s an extension of upper management, I can see it working out.
For some reason Billy Beane reminds me of Steve Jobs. A brilliant guy who probably really irritates some of the people who work under him.
People resist the idea of baseball managers being middle management because that was not the case for so long.
But of course, they should be middle management. Does anyone really think a manager should run the entire organization? Does anyone really think a manager should come in and tell the general manager and owner how things should be done? Does anyone really think that the manager should against the wishes of the manager or owner when it comes to playing young players or anything else?
Do middle managers in other workplaces get to run the whole company however they see fit? Of course not. A bank manager is not called a puppet or a lackey. He is called a good employee.
If a CEO or general manager believes in sabremetric managing, then of course they should hire a manager who is going to carry that out. Any time a restaurant or other such businesses are bought, they new owner comes in and hires his own people. That’s how any other business works.
People are always ripping George Steinbrenner for meddling into baseball matters and giving Joe Torre a hard time. Oh, really? That’s what business owners do. They have a stronger interest in thte success of that company than anyone else involved.
Kevin, EXCELLENT post!
Candidates article
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2641201
Anthony, you raise a good question about Black and Balsley; I sure hope they would be able to coexist. You also may be onto something with the people skills issue. As Kevin notes, people (including most baseball managers) resist the idea that they are middle management for historical reasons. They are being presented with a fairly radical shift in thinking, and it may be that the folks in upper management need to work on their presentation. Then again, it may be that Howe and Macha weren’t the ideal candidates to embrace the new way of thinking about field management. This might help explain why the Padres apparently are focusing on “fresh faces” in their search for a new manager. That, and fresh faces won’t cost as much…
I agree that managers are middle guys but they’re just too much about their ego to do things. That’s why a manager needs to know the #1 thing he has to do is keep his job, not win a title. I also think it was time to start playing the young guys and Boch doesn’t seem to want to do that.
The U-T’s stories are all written from the perspective that Bochy was fired. They all talk about how he wasn’t appreciated or treated properly, forgetting that Bruce was the one who interviewed, and left. I think he’s a very good manager, but that the role of all but the worst managers is overrated.
Krasovic’s story is also interesting because he points the finger at Alderson (despite the Towers comment). There are a lot of local media types who were close with Bruce, as well as the type who hate “computer geeks” instinctively. What’s interesting as he’s attacking Alderson’s decision to let Boch walk, Krasovic points out that since ALDERSON came, the team has done nothing but win:
“Bochy said he was told by CEO Sandy Alderson in ’05 that winning was his top priority; his ’05 and ’06 teams won consecutive West titles, a franchise first.”
While the U-T and 1090-AM would have you believe he’s tearing the organization apart, maybe, just maybe, Sandy knows what he’s doing.
That little bit about Bochy and Towers surprised me, I’d hope we get the full story on that in the future.
The comments by the players, while not surprising, does worry me. Does this move affect the Padres ability to sign or resign veteran players because they might perceive this as a lack of loyalty, not to mention players loved Boch.
Speaking of loyalty, I don’t understand the guys talking about a lack of loyalty with regard to Alderson. Bochy would be the guy who showed a lack of loyalty by electing to quit his job and seek greener pastures. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have done so or that I fault him for it, but if people are going to bring up loyalty, I can’t understand how that wouldn’t be the way in which they adress it.
RE 9: loyalty
They might be referring to the fact that Bochy was with the Pads for 24 years, Alderson 2(?). When you win back-to-back division titles and you have one year left on your contract, it might be nice to hear a little more than “you’re free to look for another job.” They did take him to a nice restaurant, though.
As for Alderson’s role in the back-to-back division titles, the events of the past weeks have shown that in fact management felt Bochy was not giving their ideas a big enough chance, so most of the credit has to go to Bochy for the winning seasons. Of course, Towers made some good moves, and Moores and SA have put the wheels in motion (Depodesta, Smith, Dom. Repub. farm system) to build a perennial champ. Much more so than this year, next year and the years after are when Alderson will be responsible for the team’s record.
The UT article about KT confronting Nevin was very telling. Nevin is a known whiner and mama’s boy who had enormous potential but had let his attitude get in the way of his stays with Det. and Anaheim (remember we got him for Japanese league superstar Andy Sheets). Nevin began producing after arriving in SD, so Bochy’s way of handling him seemed to be working. Nevertheless, Nevin’s capricious ways lingered and KT felt Nevin needed to be dealt with more firmly than Bochy was willing or felt necessary to do. Not that KT wasn’t correct, but I’m guessing Bochy thought that his everyday guidance and the example he set for his players would eventually wear off on Nevin. When you have a volatile player, confrontation oftens only leads to more confrontation, and then it’s human nature to start taking sides. That’s the last thing you want on any team.
Side note: I couldn’t believe how much smaller Nevin looked up close in spring training (2 years ago) than in previous years. Did anyone else notice this?
One potentially important factor is salary. I haven’t seen Geoff mention it in his entries, but it may have come up in the comments, so I apologize in advance if I’m repeating ground here.
Supposedly, Alderson doesn’t think Bochy is worth $1.9M (or more) per season. Which is different from saying that he doesn’t want him as a manager. But if Alderson feels he doesn’t want to pay Bochy what he’s making now, he’s in a tough spot; he won’t want to extend him, it makes no sense to fire him, and it’d be tough to leave him hanging around as a lame duck. Letting him walk makes the most sense, [i]if[/i] you believe you can find a manager who is practically as good for ~$1M/yr. Which apparently Alderson believes. I’m not sure.
BTW, Kevin, I am not obsessed with pointing out “that writers are sometimes wrong.” OK, maybe I am a little. I guess I was also a little offended by Law saying that if he were GM, he wouldn’t let Bochy “on the plane ride home” (after the Cards won). Bochy busted his butt all year dealing with 40 diverse personalities on and off the field, day in and day out, and he guided his team to 88 wins (the same team that was predicted by writers to win 77). It seemed to me that Law was insinuating that Bochy’s moves had cost the Pads, and that he could have done better. This after the fact, of course.
I felt obligated — because I am a Bochy fan — to point out that when Law had a chance to demonstrate his expertise beforehand, based on his knowledge, that he was not only wrong, he was dead wrong. Hindsight always seems to come a little easier than foresight.
And why are you so sensitive about a little criticism regarding writers? What, are you a former writer or something?
Just kidding.
Big KT (and others),
Writers did not predict 77 wins. Las Vegas didn’t even predict 77 wins. Las Vegas set the Over/Under on the Padres 2006 win total @ 77. Keep in mind, Vegas has not desire to be accurate. Their desire is to split the margain. If too many people take the under or the over, they’ll lose money. They want 50% of the bets on each side.
We can all agree that San Diego is dismissed by a large percentage of the baseball audience (fans, writers, probably even non-Padre players). That Vegas set the over/under at 77 it reflected where they thought they could get the best margin.
Likewise (or maybe “conversely” is a better word), when Vegas set the over/under on the Yankee win total, I would expect them to set the total artificially high because so many are overly-optimistic about the Bombers’ chances every year…
Re 8&9: I don’t think Bochy’s departure will hurt our ability to attract free agents. Bochy has long been regarded as a great manager to play for, but FA’s consistently go where the money is rather than follow their favorite managers around… Bochy’s presence didn’t help us much in attracting free agents, why should his departure hurt us?
Question: In the UT article they mentioned Tony Gwynn as saying he wasn’t going to be interviewing for the job. Which I can understand. But is there a feeling in San Diego that he will be manager at some point? Kinda like a feeling like Tony Gwynn Jr. will be a Padre at some point? (a “should” type of “will”, you know?)
Anyways, what’s the impression that you guys get? It’s hard for me to get an impression on things like this being all the way out here in Wicked fa’hr Beantown.
I get the feeling T Gwynn enjoys the life he has now and has no desire to get back into the major league grind. And as much as everyone loves Tony in San Diego I’ve never heard anyone talk about how he would be a great manager. Maybe the pre-Petco Padres would have tried to get him to manage, just to get some fans out to the park.
re: 12
While Law may have predicted the Padres to beat the Cardinals (I think), he also said Bochy was a glaring weakness for the Padres. So to point that out again after the series isn’t second-guessing. It’s saying I told you so.
Again, the Tigers were the smart pick in the World Series in every conceivable way. I’m tired of everyone saying the Cardinals proved the pundits wrong. The pundits have a job to do and they did it do the best of their ability. So do the Cardinals, and they did the same. In fact, they played over their ability. That’s why it’s called an “upset.” An 83-win team beat a 95-win team. For someone to predict that would be insane.
Kevin Towers said the Padres are looking for a manager with experience at the big-league level but not necessarily as a manager; who has been with a winning ballclub; is open-minded about the trend of using computer data to analyze players; and believes in the farm system and developing young players.