World Series IGD: Tigers @ Cardinals, Game 4

first pitch: 5:05 p.m., PT
television: FOX
matchup: Jeremy Bonderman (14-8, 4.08 ERA) vs Jeff Suppan (12-7, 4.12 ERA)
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You know the routine. Chat about the game or anything else. Be nice, and don’t break anything. Visit the fine blogs listed in the sidebar. Go outside and play. Whatever works for you…

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46 Responses »

  1. Labor peace – looks like there are still picks given in compensation for losing FA’s, but only the top and middle FA’s, not the crappy ones. The second bullet is also interesting…will that make teams like the Padres more willing to pick players who will be difficult to sign (i.e. Boras clients)?

    “Teams that lose high-profile free agents will still be compensated with draft picks, a fact that could particularly affect the Washington Nationals, who may be unable to sign star outfielder Alfonso Soriano. Under the new structure, losing such a “Type A” player — one defined as the top 20 percent of players at his position beginning in 2007 — will continue to bring a first-round pick in return. “Type B” free agents will now bring a pick between the first and second rounds, rather than the first-round pick, for the club that loses the player. There no longer will be compensation for losing “Type C” free agents, or mediocre players.

    · Clubs that fail to sign their first- or second-round picks in the amateur draft will be compensated with the same pick in the following year’s draft. For instance, if the team with the fifth pick in 2007 can’t sign its choice, it will receive the choice after the fifth pick — choice “5A” — in 2008.

    · Players who sign new multiyear contracts will no longer be able to demand a trade in the middle of the deal.

    · There no longer will be deadlines by which clubs must sign their own free agents. For instance, this year Houston had until Jan. 8 to sign pitcher Roger Clemens or be prohibited from signing him until May 1. Now, the Astros would have all winter and spring to sign Clemens.”

  2. Wow, those points actually make sense. I bet if those rules had been in force a couple of years ago that the Padres would not have taken Matt Bush first in the draft.

  3. I like the rule changes. It seems to make better sense.

    Meanwhile, the Tigers made Carpenter threw only 82 pitches in 8IP with no BB and 6Ks.
    They kept hacking like that, this series is over.

  4. You know Carpenter gets one more start, so chalk that up as another Cards win (though he’s not as good on the road, so maybe not). They still need one more, and they’ll need a repeat of the complete fluke they got from Anthony Reyes or to hope Jeff Suppan stays hot (not likely in my opinion). So, I’m still predicting Tigers win the series, but now in 7 games, which you could have won a lot of money off of me before the series on whether it could go that far.

  5. But if Carpenter pitches again, it will be in game 7. I guess I’m rooting for it to go that far, because I definitely want to see Kenny Rogers pitch in game 6 and get lit up.

  6. Intersting interview on (subscription req’d). They are doing a series called “Baseball Men, The Analysit” This time they interviewerd Bill Felber (author of “Book on the Book”).

    He is pretty skeptical on a closers value, but also mentions what is important in a field manager, to quote him “on-field game calling probably isn’t the most important part of a manager’s job. Most of the job is in clubhouse leadership, in dealing with different personalities, making sure they devote themselves to team goals and stay motivated.”

    I am sure not everybody agrees with Felder, but I think everybody agrees this is where Bochy excels.

  7. Re 6 Another interesting quote from the same interview “I used to think that it was important to exercise patience, patience, patience at the plate. The cliché is, take the first strike, but I wanted to do a breakdown by pitch count. After studying the data, I learned that, on 0-0 counts, hitters put up something like a .340 batting average with .520 slugging. Now, I’m much more inclined to follow the Richie Hebner rule – take a whack at the first nice pitch you find.”

  8. Geoff, Whats up with knucklecurve? can’t get it to load.

  9. PF4L, The reason the batting average is so high on the first pitch, is BECAUSE hitters are selective. If they look in a spot, or for a particular pitch, then f the hitter get it, he CAN crush it. If hitters went up hacking that average would be much lower than .340.

    It’s like the argument that rippled through here. People wanted Roberts in the lineup against LHP more b/c he was hitting .300 off them. However, he was hitting .300 off lefties b/c he had statistically good fortune of having the night off against the most effective lefties…

    I read that Bill Felber article… It’s there b/c it’s a piece. The Mad Friars guys didn’t do it. Felber’s an idiot.

    “I tried to make the simple point that park effects numbers are, essentially, tools for fantasy baseball.” – Huh? Yeah, the difference between Coors and Petco is only useful for fantasy baseball…

    “I have only one quarrel with Mariano Rivera – the Yankees should pitch him more often. Instead of pitching him 70 or so innings per year, they should take him out for 85 or so.” – Torre is accused of over-working Rivera. Rivera has had some minor injuries that luckily haven’t gotten more serious and this hack wants to work him harder?

  10. Come on Peter, tell what you really think about the guy :>) I hadn’t heard of Felber before but I generally trust stuff on What is your opinion of them?

  11. Wow, after reeding my furst poste, I can’t beleive how may tipo’s I had. I red the thing 5 times before I posted and wus sure I caht them. Oh well.

  12. Least Plunked Team:
    National League: San Diego Padres, 40 HBPs.
    We gotta change that, don’t we? Especially in Petco.

  13. Didi, I’d start throwing something from section 315, but I don’t think it’d reach :>)

  14. I think Denis and the others do an amazing job with the Padres stuff…

    But some of the wrters (national or from other sites) are downright poor.

  15. I agree, I generally like when Denis writes stuff. The main reason I frequent it is because my nehew pitches for the Padres AA team and they are the best source I can find for info on Padre’s minor leaguers

  16. Denver Post reports that Bochy is the front runner for the Giants position.

    They say “It’s hard to believe Bochy, who has been with the Padres for 12 years, would make the effort if he weren’t serious about taking the job.”

    What is everyone’s take on Joe Girardi? Sounds like he refuse the Washington offer and will broadcast until another openeing comes up!

  17. “Another opening” AKA When Torre’s contract expires at the end of the season.

    PF4L, your nephew and I both went to Point Loma Naz. Univ…

  18. More on Bochy from this morning’s SF Chronicle:

    Giants move for Bochy
    Henry Schulman, Chronicle Staff Writer

    Thursday, October 26, 2006

    The Giants on Wednesday formally asked the San Diego Padres for permission to interview Bruce Bochy for their managerial opening, a sign that he has emerged as a front-runner for the job.

    Bochy, who has managed the Padres for 12 seasons and guided them to the 1998 National League pennant, and NL West titles the past two seasons, already has spoken to Giants general manager Brian Sabean informally, and it was unclear when they might talk again.

    Bochy agreed Wednesday to manage the major-league all-star team that will tour Japan. Bochy replaced Terry Francona, who bowed out with a foot infection (Francona had replaced former A’s manager Ken Macha). Bochy plans to fly to Arizona on Friday for workouts and then leave for Japan on Monday, but a source close to the Giants situation said that would not provide a logistical impediment.

    Teams are not supposed to make major announcements, such as managerial hires, during the World Series, which could run through Sunday night. However, should the Giants decide to hire Bochy, an exception could be made because he did Major League Baseball a favor by agreeing to the Japan trip at the last minute.

    There is another potential obstacle: money. Bochy, who is represented by an agent, would have to hammer out a contract with the Giants, and because of his experience, he would command a higher salary than the other three main candidates, Giants bench coach Ron Wotus, Angels pitching coach Bud Black and Mets third-base coach Manny Acta.

    Giants officials had suggested money would not have been a factor if they had a chance to hire Lou Piniella. Bochy, already employed, has some leverage, too.

  19. Peter, did you go there the same time? Did you play for them?

  20. Re17 “another opening” sounds like San Diego.

  21. I graduated in 2000 (late for my age, but I think I was still ahead of him). I don’t know him… And no, I didn’t play. I played basketball in high school, but I can’t watch NBA and even college hoops is beginning to be un-watchable… I stopped playing baseball at 13. Every opportunity to “work” on a sport was spent at a playground w/ a basketball in my hand…

  22. re21: I am going to fess up and say that he is really my bother’s nephew, but I am claiming him now in case he makes to the show :>)

    He is real good guy. We used to play catch up in the NW when he was a kid and I’d go up there for business.

    On another note, it sounds more like Bochy may go to the gigantes. What are some viable candidates for the Pad’s? Girardi?, Valentine? Black, Acta? Please not Dusty or Felipe. Maybe someone inside? what about Randy Ready? Pease not Muser!

  23. Peter, maybe you could do a spot on possible managerial candidates on your site? Although I know nothing is announced, I am really surprised no one else is talking about it. Especially since there are so many Bochy haters that frequent this discussion board.

  24. re 23: make that my brother’s nephew and Please not Muser.

  25. It’s hard to do managerial candidates because there is so much ancillilary stuff in there… Will Alderson/Towers act like Beane and tell the manager how to manage, or will he have more control like Bochy had? Furthermore, how do we know how guys like Black and other will manage when they haven’t managed before?

    I know my limitations (how’s that for an excuse?).

  26. re: 23 … what does “up in NW” mean? (ie. where? I’m in Corvallis, OR)

  27. Re 28 I am 45

    Re 26: Awe, come on Peter, thats the easy way out! You typically have a pretty good clue whats going on.

    Re: 27 east of Portland, you have 20 more questions to go ;>) (btw, I have mentioned him as my nephew by name in previous posts)

  28. Re 26: I don’t think Towers would tell him how to manage. Not his style. Of course, Towers may not be around that much longer either.

    SA might do it, but he strikes me as a pretty level headed person and not likely to micro-manage. I could be wrong though and some of you may have more insight as to SA’s style. Certainly many of the managerial prognosticators say it could work out that way.

    Part of me is thinking SA is letting Towers and Bochy decide their own fate with the hopes they eventually go for the money instead of having to fire them. This would remove the PR problems that firing them would create since both of them are relatively liked fixtures in SD. I think SA is willing to Live with decent, but not championship teams until they are gone and then bring his people in.

    Or not!

  29. If Bochy leaves, I would think SA would view Manny Acta as a prime candidate “philosophically”. Acta would also fit into their strategy to have a better presence in the Domincan Republic, since he managed their team in the WBC. Finally, reading some of the Giant boards, the Padres hiring Acta after the Giants hire Bochy would really hack a lot of them off.

  30. GY … I think this article talks about people like you … … you “wave hater”! :-)

  31. #32: No Wave in baseball games.

  32. That seem’d like a big AB by Pujols … tie-ing runs on-base … ground out to 3B … still 3-1 Tigers now after 3 full …

  33. The San Jose Mercury News is saying it’s official…Bochy is going to manage the Giants.

  34. Classic stuff from Jeff Passen @ Yahoo …

    “What we really need,” Rodriguez said, “is to be more patient.”

    “The reason we haven’t been doing good,” Granderson said, “is we haven’t been aggressive.”

    “You’ve got to be aggressive,” Polanco said, “with patience.”

    OK then.


  35. That’s apparently just what they did. The San Jose Mercury News reported Thursday that discussions late into the night had resulted in a deal between San Francisco and Bochy, who managed the San Diego Padres to first place in the National League West last season.

  36. The Giants have agreed in principle with Bruce Bochy on a contract to manage the club and plan to introduce him at a news conference Friday, the Mercury News has learned.

  37. Have you read “Moneyball”? If not, do so! It gives lots of insights into Billy Beane (keep in mind Billy learned under Sandy)…

    In one section Sandy was talking to Tony LaRussa and telling Tony that the A’s should do this or that and LaRussa would basically tell him off. It bugged Alderson (obviously) that LaRussa thought he was in charge. Alderson likened it middle management running the company. Although at that time, Alderson was still new to baseball where LaRussa was a respected “baseball man” and more importantly, the A’s were winning So Alderson let LaRussa be…

    Be certain that if Alderson is involved with the next Padres manager hiring (and if Bochy is going to the Giants, Alderson WILL be involved) that manager WILL HAVE TO take direction/orders from Towers & Alderson (whether Towers cares for that control or not).

    Ranger31, why?

  38. re 33 y/o: Old people… ha!

  39. Like fine wine, I age well my friend…

  40. I compiled the following list of Giants’ minor league relievers we could ask for as compensation for Bochy:

    Brian Anderson, 23 yr. old relief-RHP, collegiate draft pick from LBSU

    Osiris Matos, 22 yr. old relief-RHP, D.R.

    Justin Hedrick, 24 yr. old relief-RHP, collegiate player from Northeastern U.

  41. #39

    The following is from a thread at McCovey Chronicles


    –Says he likes patient contact hitters. He values on-base percentage and power.

    –Says outs are precious, and he sounds unlikely to waste them with over-aggressive tactics.

    –Supports limiting pitchers’ work through pitch counts but is flexible about it.

    –Likes having one “true closer” but wants that person to be able to work for more than just three outs.

    –Is a young, new face for the Giants, symbolic of their move in a new direction.

    –Managed the Domincan baseball classic team and is respected by many players, including Albert Pujols.

    –Is bilingual.

  42. Sounds good to me – but he’ll need to rethink “#4 – Likes having one “true closer” but wants that person to be able to work for more than just three outs.”

    At this point in Hoffy’s career, he can’t handle more than 3 outs.

  43. #42
    How about just, straight up, Tim Lincecum? I’d even throw in Rob Bowen and Manny Alexander!
    Seriously, though, I’d probably take Anderson, simply as the safest of the three. Curious, though, about Todd Linden. The Giants seem to be committed to not using him, and he;s not the kind of guy who’s going to get a lot of chances with Bochy. I know coming up he was well-regarded and the Pads could use some athleticism. Just a thought.
    I also wonder if the new manager will begin to transition closers – i.e. start giving Linebrink (or Meredith, or whoever) a save here and there and even (gasp!) using Hoffman to set up. I suppose it will depend on how the 2007 Padres fare. They may still have a very good team on paper…even better than 2006′s.

  44. Good work on the prospect list there, Peter. Love those K and BB numbers, and those guys seem like they would fly under the radar because of their age.

    Acta sounds too good to be true.