Reliever Cla Meredith was supposed to get Tuesday night off. Didn’t happen. Then he was supposed to get Wednesday night off. Didn’t happen.
I can live with the loss. I can even live with Albert Pujols and his ridiculous pose after the home run. It’s cause for celebration when your team avoids getting swept at home in September and breaks a seven-game losing streak. Besides, Pujols will have to stand in against the Padres’ pitchers at some point next year. I don’t sweat that stuff.
But what in the world is Bruce Bochy doing with his young reliever? Meredith has been unhittable most of the season, but there are other guys in the bullpen who can get batters out every once in a while and it’d be nice to see Meredith’s right arm still attached to the rest of his body come the playoffs and beyond.
For the record, here is Meredith’s week:
9/21: 1.1 IP, 14 pitches
9/22: 0.1 IP, 5 pitches
9/23: off
9/24: 2.0 IP, 24 pitches
9/25: 1.1 IP, 17 pitches
9/26: 1.0 IP, 12 pitches
9/27: 0.0 IP, 2 pitches
I defend Bochy a lot — probably moreso than some folks are comfortable with — but this is just plain wrong. It puts unnecessary strain on Meredith’s arm and sends a bad message to the rest of the bullpen.
Seriously, if you’re going to give the guy a day off, just do it. If you have to tell him not to come to the ballpark, do it. Bringing in Meredith even for one batter on Wednesday was irresponsible, and I’d be saying that even if he’d gotten Pujols out.
221 Comments
Geoff – I usually think that you’re on the money. In this case, I really think that Meredith’s telling the truth when he says that his arm is alrigiht. Pujols simply did what great hitters do – learn from their past mistakes. He tittied it into the third deck, but he was long overdue. If the Cards win this thing, then it’s hard to argue against Pujols for the MVP …
A better question for Bochy-why pitch to Pujols with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs?
That decision combined with allowing Bowen and Blum to hit when McAnulty, Giles etc were available off the bench is what cost them the game.
Don’t you think Meredith/Seanez/Park would have a better chance of getting Rolen out?
Mark
I’m a huge Bochy (as well as KT) but I totally agree with Geoff on this one. And Bochy is known as a guy who rarely deviates from a plan — especially when it comes to giving guys a night off!
Can anyone explain his rationale? No?
OK, I’ll take a swing:
September, tight race, it’s a maximum of one batter (6-8 pitches, probably fewer)
+
Cla made Pujols look very un-Pujols-like last night
+
the Cardinals hadn’t seen Cla much
+
Embree wasn’t ready(sketchy)
+
Bochy liked the match up more than any other
+
Cla felt strong last night (stronger than the night before)
+
the pitching coach and bullpen coach didn’t object
+
we got Cla for Mirabelli (so it doesn’t matter if his arm falls off providing we win this year — very sketchy)
+
side-armers/submariners put less stress on their elbows (doubtful)
+
Sandy is looking over Bochy’s shoulders and licking his chops about getting his own guy in there soon
+
Bochy was distracted by the Terrell Owens incident and it affected his judgment
=
3-run homer and a disappointing loss
Yep. It still doesn’t add up.
Marsh, just to be perfectly clear — I’m okay with the Pujols homer; he’s a great player, and that’s what great players do. I’m not at all okay with potentially jeopardizing the health of a young pitcher for minimal short-term gain. Meredith may well be telling the truth about his arm, but how he feels isn’t necessarily the best indicator of what strain has actually been placed on his body. I’m not a doctor, and I guess the point is, neither is Meredith. Someone should be looking out for him, not just right now but for the long haul.
I think Bochy’s logic is that if you’re going to face Pujols, you might as well face him with your best pitcher available, and that’s Meredith. Yes, he’s pitched in six straight games or whatever, but these are the most important games of the season. The smartest move probably would have been to let Linebrink walk Pujols (either intentionally or unintentionally, it seemed Scotty didn’t knwo where the zone was tonight anyway) and then bring in the lefty Embree to face the lefty Spiezio. But Bochy is reluctant to intentionally put runners on base (a logic I tend to agree with), so he opted to go with the hot hand. But getting Pujols out gives you the best chance of winning the game, and Meredith gives you the best chance of getting Pujols out. It might not have been the smartest move, but I see Bochy’s logic and I can’t criticize him for it.
Also, I really don’t see what we’re saving Meredith for. Again, I realize he’s pitched the last several nights in a row, but
Whoops, hit submit on accident there. To finish off…
Also, I really don’t see what we’re saving Meredith for. Again, I realize he’s pitched the last several nights in a row, but we’re fighting for a division title here, and these are the times where you need every bullet you have. I don’t think Bochy is ready to play for next season, and he’s willing to throw a bit of caution to the wind in order to win now. It’s not the best long-term decision, but nobody on this team is thinking that far ahead right now.
Going to the well one too many times. Problem is, you don’t know when it is too much. What aggrivated me, and I mentioned it yesterday, was that we did not open up the game yesterday. We do that, both Linebrink and Meredith are rested and we probably win tonight.
A few other things: why Bellhorn? Why did Sledge bat against a LHP with a LHB behind him? He’s looked awful, you have Johnson. That was like giving them an out. Termel’s D is not that good either. Makes no sense to me.
Dogs win. Phillies win. BP had us at 98% at making the playoffs, and it sure did not feel like it this morning, and sure not now. 1 game over the Dodgers who suddenly cannot lose and the Phillies who battled the Nats.
How many dramatic HR’s are we going to give up?
Another annoyance: sure looked like the balls and strikes favored the Redbirds.
Okay, so I feel that I must take on some personal responsibility for what happened last night. You see, it starts with my first RedSox game ever at Fenway Park. It continues with a lot of beers and a post-game trip to a Fenway bar. Then comes a loud cell phone conversation on my cellphone with my brother (Clayton, of many ducksnort posts) about “why the f’?” Bochy was batting Bellhorn, which of course was overheard by a bunch of RedSox fans telling me that Bellhorn was worthless (to which I agreed). So, being the proud Pads fan that I am (btw, found out last night that a one of my section-mates at Harvard Business School is actually a good friend of Chris Young – in fact, he talks to him regularly – I guess he went to Princeton with him), I started tossing in some Josh Bard and Cla Meredith lines to really rub salt in their wounds (this after watching the f’n Sox give up 9 runs in the 7th). Of course, their reply was a stoic “had to have mirabelli”, so I figured I would start tossing around some stats about Meredith as well as my recollection of Meredith’s last “battle” against Pujols (thanks in part to Friberg’s blog). Now, to justify myself a bit, the response I had gotten to my initial stabs was one of “yeah, any pitcher could be good in the national league”, so I felt I was forced to submit to them the Pujols at bat. does that make sense? I mean, they danced like they wanted it – at least, in my mind they did. But, ironically, in the spirt of the late, semi-great Kurt Gowdy, I guess I jinxed Cla Meredith in the process….. I hope everyone will forgive me…..
Forgive? No way – you were messing with big karmic forces and should have known better.
Plus, I can attest that “a lot of beers” is a gross understatement – never have I heard such slurring.
Anyway, have to agree strongly Jay’s post (#7) – why the eff is Bellhorn pinch hitting? Why the effing eff is Sledge still in the game when it’s obvious he wasn’t having a good night? There may have been no more predictable AB’s last night than Bellhorn’s and Sledge’s 4th (though I did post as soon as Cla came out of the pen that this was a bad move).
I hope I’m overthinking the “effect on the rest of the team” thing. I can spin up a case that the rest of the ‘pen had their feelings hurt by BB going to Cla on his ‘night off’, and I can spin one up on the shattered self-confidence of the rest of the squad, blah, blah, blah. Fact is, we were all worried for good reason about that after the Fluke Game in LA, and turns out this team’s got more intestinal fortitude than we gave them credit for. So, on to Zona. Let’s win the opener and get this thing moving to the finish line.
Regarding tonight:
From the UT: “Against Arizona, Padres ace Jake Peavy is 0-2 with a 7.15 ERA this year and 6-8 with a 5.65 ERA in 16 career starts.”
He’s due, right?
Also: Klesko 12 for 27 lifetime against Batista…Bochy wouldn’t start him and his circus-like D in RF or LF, would he?
Re: 10
Marsh, hope you enjoyed Fenway! Sorry we couldn’t give you a better game. I’d have bought you a beer if I saw you there in Padres gear…
I’m in total agreement with Geoff about Meredith needing a day off regardless of circumstances. If this were a true do-or-die game, then sure, because there’s no point in saving him for an opportunity that may not come. But he’s a rookie–there’s no reason to think he himself knows how far he can go. And few pitchers, especially rookies, would be entirely honest about how they’re feeling if they think the team is counting on them, IMO. That’s the job of the coaches and trainers–to make that decision for them. I had to “watch” the game via cell phone updates on the way home and never dreamed they’d put Cla in.
Glad to see though that Cla seems to have the right attitude, that he went after Pujols, and Pujols got him because, hey, it’s Pujols. It took Cla about a year to acknowledge that he really had been in over his head when he made his Boston debut. He’s maturing fast. Can’t speak for the rest of the team, but at least I’m confident that this won’t affect him.
Barfield, Johnson, and Knott had to be looking at each other on the bench last night during Bellhorn’s at-bat. “Did he forget to put his contacts in?” Rust I can understand. Not seeming to be awake, not so understandable.
Kelly – don’t be an enabler. My brother has a problem, and there’s a 12 step program for it. Just needs to admit it.
Couldn’t agree with you more Geoff! I’m not mad about the loss, I’m not mad about the homer, I’m just can’t believe he brought Meredith in… AGAIN! I could also do without ever seeing Mark Bellhorn’s ass in an actual MLB game ever again. I look at it on the bright side, we took 2 of 3 from the Cardinals in St. Louis. Yeah they are on the ropes right now and not playing great but if you would have told me we were going to do that a month or two ago I would have been syked!
re 10: Kelly – I was there in my classic Swingin Friar Orange Padres Cap… ugly as anything, but definitely supporting the team. Will probably be at Sat night game too.
oh – and Fenway is pretty amazing. it definitely lived up to the hype.
Are we greedy? 3-of-3 from the Redbirds…Pachanga…I wanted that game last night so bad. When we beat Carpenter to take game 2, I smiled.
But I am bitter…Silly Bochy…
Add this to the list of “Why I finally want to fire Boch”. Is this worse than bunting Cameron in the 8th inning, with no outs, down by a run, and a runner on 1st? Yes…
I am not one to buy into all of the pinch count crap that is going on …I am firmly in the ATL side of this and think the more you throw the better off you are, but this is just terrible.
No, I am not going to trust Cla…he is in his early 20’s, pitcing in the big leagues…He is invincible…he is indistructable…he is a 20 year old man who can do anything…in his head. He does not know when to say uncle. And even if he did, I don’t know that he would…If I were in his shoes, I would trot out there until I could not lift my arm above my waist. Anything Bossman tells me to do. Whatever is good for the team. My arm always bounces back.
This is the type of abuse that ends careers. Silly…Sad…Pathetic…
Seperated at Birth — Bochy and Baker.
Long live Kerry Wood, Cla Meredith, and Mark Prior. Fire Boch…Fire KT…Go Padres!
Well, missed the entire game due to a school function, but reading comments and articles, sounds like another Bochy head-scratcher for bringing Cly in again. Pulous is a jerk, great player but a jerk. You hit the fucking ball to the third deck, now get around the bases, you idiot. But he had to have his ESPN momnet, didn’t he. What would Jesus say about your antics, Albert, about your “humility?” Even hear of eye of the needle?
But that is the past. Now we have Az. Remember the Padre motto this year, “always the hard way”, so I’m predicting this season comes down to needing to win the last game of the season to get into PS.
Imagine after all this, not making the PS. That would really be a killer.
BTW, geoff, is the Beatrix Kiddo from Kill Bill? Love those movies.
re 19
Yes, before the series if you asked me if I would take 2 out of 3 right then and there I would have bought. That doesn’t excuse a poor performance by everyone not named Chris Young in game 3.
The lowlights:
– Piazza’s airmailed throw to 2nd moving the evenutal first run of the Cards to third
– Sledge’s complete inability to hit last night. It was like was like he’d never done it before. And he kept coming up with guys on (3 LOB total)
– Cameron’s nifty 0-4, stranding a pair
– Linebrink forgetting where the strike zone is (or being over-tired, but c’mon, his workload this September has to be less than last September, right)
– Doc’s 1-4 strands 3 as well
Bottom line, we should have BURIED Reyes last night. Pretty inexcusable that the game ever got to the point it did. He threw like a hundred pitches the first 4 innings, yet we lacked the killer instinct and never got him out of there, letting him go 6 with only the single run. Our offense, when it’s off, its REALLY off. That’s why all bets are off until we clinch something. No matter how good our pitching can be, sometimes the bats get into a funk that no other contending team has to deal with. It is entirely in the realm of possiblity we go to Arizona, face three mediocre pitchers and one great one and go 1-3 or 0-4 due to lack of hitting.
That’s 7 W’s for CY that the ‘pen has blown. As good as our bullpen is, that really stands out.
Bochy could have avoided all of this by sending out Chris Young in the 8th. His pitch count was manageable, and since this was the fifth-to-last game, his turn in the rotation does not come up again (unless Bochy decides to pull a Little a start him on 3 days’ rest, like LA is doing with both Maddux and Lowe).
Re: 18
I just wish it could have been a Sox win–that’s when you really see Fenway at its best. But it was a good game to the 7th, anyway. I’ll look for your cap Saturday, unless I get the call to fly to AZ and be a good-luck charm again. (I’m 5-for-5 for the Friars in September, two games in Cincy and last weekend in SD–and yes, I did plan it so I could be there for Trevor’s record, honest!) Was hoping the Padres would come to Fenway again this year but I’ll settle for making the trip to the west coast again.
Even with the win, I hope that game might have taken something out of the Phillies. Gordon blowing the save and all the extra innings… if they had to win, that’s the way I’d want to see it.
(Will resume lurk mode soon, really.)
re 23 – no, sorry, it was the 8th inning. 8th inning = Linebrink. Says so right on the stone tablets in the dugout. You must not watch many Padre games.
Both Linebrink and Meredith should have had the night off. Period. My wife was laughing at me as I was shouting at Bochy through the TV when Linebrink came in, which intensified as he forgot how to throw a strike. What the hell was wrong with Embree? He was up, and it looked like he was ready. Now, there is no way in f***ing hell Linebrink or Meredith should come into the game tonight. They shouldn’t even put on their uniform. Peavy should go deep tonight, whether he “has it” or not, since this should be his last start before playoff baseball starts next Tuesday.
I think everyone realizes that Bochy just simply isn’t a very good in-game manager. There were a ton of mistakes made last night. First of all, he didn’t pinch-hit for Sledge in the top of the 7th. For one thing, that was only Sledge’s 4th AB against a left-hander this season. Secondly, you have a ton of right handed hitters on the bench so why not use them? And if LaRussa brings in a righthander, than you still have a bunch of lefties on the bench. Just a baffling move all the way around. It seems like Sledge has morphed into the anti-Nady, a player that Bochy will use no matter what the situation.
The reliever usage in the 8th was also strange. By bringing in Linebrink and Meredith he was saying that this was a must win game. That being the case, why in the world would you pitch to Pujols in that situation? Did Bochy realize that Scott Spiezio was the on-deck hitter? Granted, Spiezio did hit one of the biggest HRs in World Series history, but that was 4 years ago!
Now I guess the real question is whether or not the Padres can live with the things Bochy does well (gets guys to play hard, has a good clubhouse, bullpen construction and handling) while not suffering too much from the things he does poorly (in game management, young player development).
I know watching Pujols stroll out of the batter’s box admiring his handiwork was tough, but he’s EASILY one of my favorite players. I don’t get it guys…
The loss was tough, but losing when we had to burn Linebrink & Meredith was tough. Now they both NEED a day off and the Padres still NEED a few wins…
Come on Peavy, we need to give some guys some rest. Good thing he knows it too…
I’m late to the discussion. IMHO the two walks (free passes) were what killed us. Throw a strike if they get hits then so be it …but don’t walk two guys so Albert gets a chance to bat with runners on.
Meredith is not overworked. He may be pitching more than relievers do these days, but his arm isn’t made any differently than relievers from the past 50 years. There’s no reason why a reliever can’t pitch up to 115 innings, providing he’s not pitching 2-3 innings a lot and not pitching every day.
I agree, Andy, the runners were Linebrink’s. All Meredith did was give up a homer to one of the best hitters, well, ever. That’s going to happen sometimes.
I am repeating myself a bit, so sorry, but last night was a bit of the return of that “What is Bochy thinking?” feeling. Nicely, I had not had it in awhile. But letting Bellhorn hit (but somehow he got the wild pitch so it worked) made no sense. Hitting Sledge against a LHP with a LHB behind him (so they could not switch the pitcher) when you have Johnson. Doc was at second. I just do not get it at all. Bellhorn has been horrid, but you don’t sit him until he is old and rusty and THEN bring him in a high leverage situation. Not fair to him, even if he is horrid.
Another question I have is why did he pull CY? He was at 92 pitches, you have a tired pen. I would take CY on 92 then either Linebrink or Meredith on fumes. Or, trust the rest of your pen and put in someone fresh. If CY is over 100 going into the innning, yes, you pull him. But 92? I guess to keep him fresh for the next start, and if there is some data to support that, but man. Fresh pen, yes, OK. Tired pen, no way. So bringing in Linebrink and Meredith is starting to look like the third best option behind keeping in CY or bringing in a fresh reliever.
BP has us a 95% for the playoffs, but our divisional title odds dipped from 88% to 74%. Still good, but their methodology does not take into account that both the Dodgers and Phillies are on serious tears. As are the Pads, but if they stop tearing it up, will the others stop too? I fear not. Basically their Monte Carlo methodology, on average, predicts everyone to go 2-2 over the last four games, if you look at the difference between current and final standings. That is hard to accept given recent records:
Phillies: 11-3
Dodgers: 5-1
Of course the Padres have been 7-2, 17-7
I know I have ranted about this before, and Geoff and others have pointed it out, but man the Giants better show up for that final series:
SD vs SF: 7-12; SF vs LA: 6-10; up to this point if SF had EITHER played .500 vs the Pads OR played .500 vs Dodgers, then the Pads would have 2-3 more wins vs the Dodgers, and this would be locked up. And you know what drives me even more crazy? We had an OPS advantage in the stats with them in our games vs. them: 703 vs. 685. Yes, we out hit them. So, based on the performance, we ought to have at least won or at worst .500. Instead, we kept flailing with RISP and they kept getting the hits. I think luck, but still very frustrating to watch.
But as frustrating as this is, how good is CY? What a pick up. And if Hensley’s second half is not a fluke, it is pretty easy to get excited about having Peavy, Young and Hensley in your rotation in the future.
Sledge hits “backwards…”
vs. RHP: .288/.377/.547 in 278 AB (AAA)
vs. LHP: .382/.477/.697 in 89 AB
It’s actually pretty impressive that Bochy left him vs. an LHP
…Bellhorn on the other hand…
#34
Inside Bochy’s mind:
“Let’s see…TLR will go with the righty-lefty match-ups at this point in the game…I’m gettin’ kinda tired so let’s use Belly ‘cuz he’s a switch hitter, that way I’ll only need to make one trip”
Kevin…Cla is overworked right now…50 years ago careers lasted 2-5 years…that was it. Today, they can expect to go 5-10 if effective…you blow up a guys arm in yr 1 and that hurts the Pads in the long term.
See Kerry Wood, Bill Pulsipher, Todd Van Poppel, Mark Prior, etc…
Everyone is thinking too much. Meredith threw a bad pitch, and AP hit it out. That’s baseball.
What if Cla had struck him out? We wouldn’t be having this discussion. Tip your cap to Albert – he beat us. Scoreboard.
Quit thinking so much. Nuf said.
36: Yes, pitchers today don’t get to take batters off. And Clay is still a young arm, it’s crazy to deny that fatigue could be a factor. He’s thrown more than Linebrink and Linebrink was 4 mph slow last night with no command, classic signs of a tired pitcher.
But I’d risk Clay’s arm for the playoffs. The problem with last night was a tired Clay who Pujols had probably studied obsessively since his embarassment earlier was a bigger risk than some other relievers or the IW, which usually I abhor.
33: I’m not going to buy those splits when they’re predicated on a 382 batting average. Not with Barfield and Johnson on the bench. Not with Sledge having already earned the hat trick.
This is Bochy’s first “bad” game in a while. It’s usually smart managing to go with your best relievers, but he has to realize that somebody else will have to pitch before the end of the season. Do you use one of The Others when you have a 1 run lead, your Best are tired, and you’ve already won the series? Or do you keep using the Best until they can’t throw at all?
Mike RE: 37…I was mad at Boch for using Cla on Tuesday. It worked out, but I was still upset…Count me in the “Outcome does not matter if it is the wrong move” court.
Wrap me up in a radish and call me bitter…
#38
Spot on…”Pujols had probably studied obsessively since his embarassment earlier”. Cla went with the same pitch to the same location, but with a little less movement and a little more elevation than the one that got Pujols previously. Pujols was sitting on that pitch and location and CRUSHED it. Cudos to Pujols, and I’ll give him a pass for the “dramatics” as he watched the vapor trail of the ball as it left the yard.
41 – agree with the diagnosis, absolutely do not agree on the pass for the theatrics. That was bush. Derek Jeter doesn’t do that. Plus this is pretty humble rookie pitcher – why show him up like that?
#41
The last time Pujols did that to the Padres (i.e., pose after hitting a bomb either last year or the year before…not sure) it was a topic of discussion on the radio talk shows. I remember several Padres players being interviewed and asked about it and each one giving Pujols a pass. Last night, he hits a come from behind homer, late in the game, in the middle of a long losing streak, in the midst of a pennant race, against a pitcher who embarassed him the last time he faced him, and he was a little bit emotional about that. If he hit the same pose after a “jack” a month ago or earlier, then he better keep his knees lose the next time he comes to the plate against us.
And I believe it’s Busch, not bush
…thats “loose” not “lose”
#37: As CM notes, we would be having the discussion regardles of outcome. I’ll say it again: Having Meredith pitch last night wasn’t a bad move because Pujols hit a homer off him (that falls into the category of information that we didn’t have when the decision was made), it was a bad move because Meredith was running on fumes and had no business being out there.
Here’s a question: Which relievers are “unavailable” for tonight’s game and in what circumstances will Bochy call on them despite that fact?
#44
Linebrink should be unavailable under any circumstance. Meredith threw only 2 pitches in the game, so I would have him available in a 1 or 2 batter situation in the 7th or 8th (though I would prefer to rest him). I’m not sure on Chan Ho’s status, but if available I’d like to see Chan Ho come in to pitch the 7th and/or 8th tonight. I also wouldn’t be against bringing Trevor in during the 8th inning to get the last 4 or 5 outs.
Liney & Cla both need nights off – PERIOD!
We need an 8 IP performance out of Jake and hand the ball to Hoffy or a reliever-to-be-named-later in the case of a Padres blowout… If we’re down a few runs, race-be-damned, those guys NEED a breather to be strong for the next three.
The game recap at padres.com mentions that Young had to come out due to back spasms. Maybe this is a stupid question but why not bring Trevor in to pitch to Pujols in that situation?
Meredith and Linebrink both need the night off so hopefully Jake will have his good stuff tonight and CHP will be ready if he doesn’t.
In other news, the Padres officially have moved their Double-A affiliate to San Antonio. It’s a two-year deal, and the ownership group there also owns the Eugene Emeralds.
News Flash:
“On a Mission” Takes on New Meaning
http://padresrundown.blogspot.com/2006/09/on-mission-takes-on-new-meaning.html
Belhorn, Linebrink, Meredith, pitching to Pujois with 2 out and runners on 2nd and 3rd….so many poor decisions. Bochy has got to go.
42: According to the free dictionary http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Bush+League, it is bush, not busch. Although like everything else baseball, there are probably two (or more) theories on that.
to quote their site: “Bush league is a general term used to describe an action or thing as being amateur, inferior or crude. In a literal sense, it refers to a low quality minor-league in baseball not associated with any of the major league teams. The term originated from the state of minor-league fields that often were ringed with shrubs and bushes.”
One of the best in-game tacticians in all of baseball is Buck Showalter. However, he has an uncanny ability to get under the skin of his players. Twice he has built amazing teams only be shown the door before those team mutinied under him. In both cases those teams won the World Series after that GREAT tactician left…
The psychological aspects of managing are MORE IMPORTANT than the in-game stuff. And in that regard, Bochy does an AMAZING job. Let’s not send Boch on his way just yet…
#52: I agree Peter, most of the time, a manager’s decisions do not win or lose ball games, that is usually done by the players. I’ll admit that it may happen from time to time and it hurts when it does, but the players are the ones throwing, htiing and fielding the ball.
Michael Lazerus (of FoxSports.com) has a ranking system (the results are of his system and not subjective) of starting pitchers…
Chris Young is #9 in all of baseball & Peavy is #15… The top 20 are listed… The only team that two pitchers ahead of the Padres (heck the only other team w/ 2 pitchers on the list actually has 3 – the Yankees’ Mussina is #6, Wang is #11, and The Unit is #19…
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6009804
I don’t think pitching careers, at least the ones of good pitchers, ever lasted two to five years.
I’m talking about elite relievers, which is what Meredith is so far.
Goose Gossage
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gossari01.shtml
The fact that Meredith looked tired or that he gave up a home run to one of the best hitters of all time or that you think he NEEDS a day off is sufficient evidence that he does need a day off.
What Would Bill Jame Do?
“What is the absolutely pefect way to use a relief ace? Suppose that you have one reliever who is clearly better than anyone else on your staff. What is the very best way to use him, so that he will have maximum impact on the won-lost record of his team?
“The answer that I am going to offer is a guess, albeit informed by research. The very optimal usage pattern, I believe, would be to use the relief ace:
– two innings a game when the game is tied,
– two innings a game when you have a one-run lead and
– one inning at a time in other games when the game is close at the end and the relief ace hasn’t been used for a day or two.
“In other words, bring in your man when you’re ahead by one after seven innings, when you’re tied after seven innings or when the game is close and the relief ace isn’t tired.
“If the reliever pitched two innings two days in a row, he would need to rest the third day. This situation, then, would create a workload of about 69 games, 113 innings per season. Now, that is NOT a workload that is going to destroy anybody. In all honesty, I can’t see one iota of evidence that a workload of 70 games, 130 innings is dangerous to a reliever.” (The New Bill James Historical Abstact, 2001, p. 237-238)
Sorry, I meant to say IS NOT sufficient evidence that he needs a day off. I hate when I have a long post and one missed word ruins it. Anyway …
1-0 Colorado in the bottom of the 1st in Denver.
Beg Pardon…
3-0 Rockies – Holliday 3R homer off Penny
Matsui -double
Sullivan – walk
Atkins – K
Holliday – HR
Helton – single
coaching visit for Penny
Baker – 2b
Kevin, expect that Cla has pitched:
9/20 0.0 IP – 0 outs
9/21 1.1 IP – 4 outs
9/22 0.1 IP – 1 out
9/23 0.0 IP – 0 outs
9/24 2.0 IP – 6 outs
9/25 1.1 IP – 4 outs
9/26 1.0 IP – 3 outs
9/27 0.0 IP (faced one batter, I’m going to call this .1 IP for the sake of math) – 0 outs
In the last 8 games, Cla has pitched in seven game and pitched 6.0 IP. if we extend that out… Then Cla’s pitching in 142 games and throwing 121.1 IP. And THAT would cause his arm to fall off…
tulowiniskitolowinskitolousi – K
Ianetta – IBB
Bases juiced for BK Kim.
Kim takes three pitches down the middle for the K.
3-0 rocks
I’ll take the 3-0 lead, but facing Hung-One Kim…? Color me skeptical on whether that lead holds…
By the way… I watched the last 11 innings or so of the Phillies game last night. Other than Howard (and maybe Utley), that team doesn’t scare me at all. Their pitching is especially suspect.
Well, he’s off to a good start. Walked the leadoff hitter on 4 pitches in the 2nd.
re: 61
Agreed that that is a tough stretch. But we could take any eight-game stretch of any player and project it and come up with something wild. Adrian Gonzalez had an eight-game stretch where he was Babe Ruth at one point this year. I’m sure there were stretches this season when Meredith got very little work.
It’s possible that Bochy went to him once too often, but we can’t KNOW this. Again, he gave up a homer to Albert Pujols, hardly a badge of shame. It’s possible it was the worst decision ever, but I don’t see why everyone is absolutely sure of this. That’s all.
re: the Phils
Doesn’t Rick White look like someone you’d see here:
http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov/
From ESPN.com chat
Floyd (Los Angeles): What pitcher do you think is due for the biggest rebound in 2007? Colon? Ohka? Sheets? Peavy? Prior? Mulder?
Rob Neyer: Peavy’s No. 1 and none of the other guys are close. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Peavy that a bit of luck won’t cure, and I expect an ERA next season at least a run lower than his current 4.13.
#51
Busch was snark, given the location of the game I thought it a cute little play on words. I tried to add a snark “tag” at the end of the phrase to clarify that, but it showed up in the draft and not the post.
Kim does an excellent job living up to Peter’s moniker, giving up a grand slam to James Loney. And the Dodgers are pulling Penny for a pinch hitter.
4-3 LA Lomey Grand Slam.
Well that didn’t last too long in Colorado, it would be nice to see something along the lines of the 12-11 Coors Field special today to hurt the Dodgers bullpen before they get to SF.
Hung-One lived up to my name for him….
Wow! Penny’s replaced in 2nd IP
Last night’s game was just further proof that Bochy is an awful, awful in-game manager. He just doesn’t know how to do his job.
Kevin, you said, “Agreed that that is a tough stretch.” Which is EXACTLY why Geoff, myself, others said he needed the night off…
By last night’s game, do you mean any game this year?
Now Billingsley’s in there in for LA – pulling out ALL the stops. G-men have the day off… the Dodgers WILL come in gassed – come on Rox – hit, hit, hit!!!
Richard, see #52
re: 78
Yes, we can agree on the hard facts, but not the conclusions reached from those facts.
Billingsley off to a good start… single, walk.
Kev, I can live w/ that… My contention though, is that Bochy wanted to give Cla the night off. Linebrink was gassed… He could have used Atkins or Sweeny & IBB’d Pujols and if it didn’t work and we did lose, we’d have Cla for tonight. As it is now, we didn’t win and we don’t have our best high-leverage guy entering a critical series. It was a HUGE tactical error, but unlike a few posters, I’m not willing to hang Boch over it.
Rockies do an excellent job of getting themselves out of that rally. After 2, Dodgers still lead 4-3.
No doubt BB – dang!!!
81: Agreed that he is clearly excellent at the rest of his job. I just wish they could somehow get him to manage at least competently in-game.
…but then retires next 3 in order.
re: 84
Instead of talking about how Meredith was managed or mis-managed, the bigger story to me is that Scott Linebrink isn’t very good at his job. But it will take an act of congress to get him out of the setup role.
The last thing I want is for Bochy to flip flop Linebrink and Meredith….as it stands now the Padres best relief pitcher is being used in the highest leverage situations.
I’d much rather have Linebrink starting innings with no one on base and Meredith coming in when a starter leaves runners on base.
Mark
Jesus! Kim is awful. Bases loaded again for LA
Kim out, Hampson in.
Hampson’s been outstanding this year…if you’re a dodgers fan.
BP’s stat of the day today says we have the 14th and 15th most valuable offensive third baseman in the National League on the team right now (Branyan and Walker). It also shows we have given playing time to guys that combined are almost 3 wins below replacement level (Alexander, Bellhorn, and Castilla). But at least the least valuable third baseman is still starting every day for Philly.
the least the rox can do for us, is beat up on the Dodgers pitching so they come into SF tired…
I think that’s the most the Rox can do.
Hampson comes in and walks Drew with the bases loaded. Attaway, Rockies pitching.
5-3 LA walked in a run.
I think the Rox plan is to tire the Dodgers position players by all that running around the bases. Perhaps they’ll be dizzy by the time they get to SF.
Geez, thanks for nothing…
Way to roll over, Rox.
LOL @ dprat…
***
“There’s more than a decent amount of scuttlebutt about Barry Zito going to the Padres. He’d be a natural replacement for David Wells.”
From John Heyman of SI.com
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/09/28/thursday.scoop/index.html
I’d prefer to spend it on Soriano and go after Harang…
re: 90
I agree, but who says Linebrink is even the third-best reliever? Try someone else there.
I think the Yankees and Mets lead the Zito race. Any other team is a distant third.
8-3 LA. We lose tonight. All tied up.
Both NY teams have talked about not being interested in Zito, that may be true of the Yankees, but the Mets have SERIOUS pitching issues, they SHOULD be in on the Zito-stakes
#102: I don’t agree, but it’s an interesting idea. Which of the following would you like to see Bochy try in the seventh — Adkins, Cassidy, Embree, Seanez, or Sweeney?
On another note, no love for Gonzalez or Cameron in THT’s look at defense. I’d like to see the universe where Berkman is a better first baseman than Gonzo, because I’ll bet I’m filthy rich there.
8-3? Come on Rox…
I agree with Kevin and Mike_martin from #37.
it’s just not that conclusive. there’s always the other side of the argument with things like this. While you may argue that you’d say the same thing if he got Pujols out, you can’t deny that your tone and analysis is colored by the outcome. If we had won the game, there would be one or two posts something like this:
“Great win! Bringing in Cla was iffy, but good thing he only had face one batter, and one he had recent success against.”
and that’d be it.
re: 106
I’m not sure there is a great option there, Geoff. I like Cassidy.
But I remember Richard saying Linebrink was our seventh or eighth-best reliever one night.
Damned Rox, got no pride at all, can’t wait to start bow huntin. Are the giants gonna be any better. My sister from the bay area says the Giants are up for the series and want to knock the dawgs out more then anything, but one team is playing for a POS, the other as string. We shall see. Ain’t nothing easy for this team.
Rally caps…go Rox!
8-5 LA
re: 106
On the fielding, I think the Padres have lots of guys who have been second or third best at their position in the league. And they continue to be No. 1 in defensive efficiency in the majors.
8-6… keep it goin
Here come them Rox… 8-6 LA.
dumbass got picked off second. sheesh.
re 110
Any reason the ‘Backs will be more ‘up’ than the Giants? At least in that series the Giants have a hatred of the Dodgers going back a ways.
Philosophical Question: would you rather play before or after the Dodgers? Me, I like after, like today. Like to go into the game knowing I have to Win, sort of like picking to go on Defense in the first period of college FB overtime.
Be a hero, Vinny C.!
Ianetta singles. should be 8-7 if Baker isn’t napping on 2nd.
VINNY FRIGGIN CASTILLA!
8-7…GO ROX!
Adios Billingsley
VINNY! – okay, it was a single…vinny.
Rob Neyer pointed out that Padres catchers have 30 HRs and 103 RBIs.
Kevin…Baseball history is littered with relievers who pitch 80-100 innings in a season and be ultra productive…only to see the following seasons marred by injury and poor performance. For every Goose, Eck, Hoffy, or Mariano there are 5-10 Farnsworth’s, BK Kim’s, Todd Van Poppel’s, Bill Pulsifer’s, Tom Wilson’s, etc, etc. I am scared that this whipping that Cla is taking will shorten his effective years on the Pads.
Peter…I don’t hang Boch on that one decision…I just tighten the noose. His in game tactcs have been average at best during his tenure. Our overall record has been dismal. Now, I have always given him a pass b/c it was the Pads we were talking about. A poor team that was being handled well by a decent manager. Now that the Pads are starting to show some consistant talent, the gaping hole that is in game managing has started to show. He has generally been handling the bully well, the catching situation has been his best effort yet, but that does not erase the poor job he has done when it comes to pinch hitting, overuse of relievers, poor tactical defensive positioning, poor bunting decisions…I can go on.
Clayton, I like to play at the same time…can I order that?
Win shares has Barfield as the second best fielder in the NL behind Hudson.
Second time CO bats around in four innings, four Dodger pitchers used already.
Even with missed time, Greene is tied for fourth in the NL.
Adios Beimel…next up, Aaron Sele to face Atkins w/ bases loaded.
Cameron is second among center fielders.
8-8 in Denver
rockies take the lead.
Rocks take the lead…wooohooo
Sac Fly
10-8 ROX
Vinny scores the go-ahead run.
Roberts is second among left fielders behind Endy Chavez. I can’t believe that THT guy picked Soriano. He doesn’t try unless an assist is involved.
Giles is second among right fielders behind Randy Winn.
48 pitches in the 4th for dodger pitchers. 7 runs allowed.
10-8 Rockies.
this is gonna be a long ass game.
Catcher and third base are weak spots defensively. But everywhere else is an extreme positive.
Meredith has by far been our best reliever. Trevor is a distant number two, but he’s been significantly better than our #3 which is a tie between Linebrink , Sweeney and Embree. Adkins is a step down from them. Cassidy is about two steps lower than him. Seanez has just been bad (small sample).
re: 138
pitch count thru 4…..
LAD: 113
COL: just 78
Through 4 innings, the Rockies have 14 hits and 6 walks.
10-9 rockies, one in, still no outs in top of 5th. I hate these games.
Friar,
It’s still only 10-8 (for now). Bases are loaded.
looks like kent didn’t score after all. Bases loaded now.
whatever. both these teams are retarded.
The Padres are 90.1 percent to win the division.
i’m setting the o/u at 33… and that’s only ’cause of runner fatigue in the late innings.
James Loney 3-3, 7rbi
Tie Ball game in Col..Middle of 5
Time out for — I kid you not — a video tribute to Vinny Castilla.
It’s his last game in Colorado.
dprat, seriously considering taking the over on that. not like the bullpens get better as they go deeper
Stunningly, a lead off walk.
Through 5 innings, batters are a collective 24 for 51 with 12 walks.
Ray King Rules…RKR.
CM, “I don’t hang Boch on that one decision…I just tighten the noose” nicely put…
UGH! back-to-back by the Dodgers (stop me if you’ve heard this before) 12-10 Dodgers
The only reason he has a job is that he can get Barry Bonds out.
CM (re: #125), you said:
Kevin…Baseball history is littered with relievers who pitch 80-100 innings in a season and be ultra productive…only to see the following seasons marred by injury and poor performance.
EXACTLY! “…the following seasons marred by injury…” b/c managers abused them…
“….and poor performance.” b/c they were flukes. Cla’s minor league numbers tell us that while there may not be room for improvement, he only allowed 1 minor league HR and consistently baffled hitters. If he stays healthy, he will not be a one-year wonder.
RKR, baby, RKR.
Geoff, is this a record for non-IGD comments?
well at least I’m getting my wish that Rox-hitters are abusing LA too…
Houston is up 3-0 in the 7th on Pittsburgh. And Betemit doubles in two more runs for the Dodgers, and it’s 14-10. Way to go Rockies bullpen.
14-10 LA. What the hell’s going on up there?
Both sides have 14 hits with 8 walks for the Rockies and 5 for the Dodgers. Coors Field back to its old tricks, or is the pitching for both sides just that bad?
Humidor busted.
Sonofatentofourteencan’ttheroxpitch?
#163
I believe Charlie Brown is now pitching for the Rockies…it was a double-switch….Lucy is now playing RF.
10-16
And there’s another homer by Loney. 16-10 Dodgers.
Loney certainly having a day to remember, 9 rbi in the 6th inning, wtf?
Loney, 2nd homer of the day. 16-10 LA (9rbi for Loney)
I wouldn’t worry yet, the Rockies are due to bat around again.
2:1 odds Hendrickson goes deep. takers?
good to see clint hurdle is getting the lefty-lefty matchup going for the pitcher.
Peter, I think you and I are on the same page with Cla. He should not have been used 2 days ago…He absolutely should not have been used yesterday…He should not even show up to the field today.
I wonder if Boch is fined in kangaroo court or even real fines by the front office for his attempted murder of Cla’s right arm.
Game delay while groundskeepers pick up Mesa’s clothes scattered around infield.
Hit the pitcher…Nice job JA!
Loney before game: 8RBI in 98 AB
Loney during game: 17RBI in 102 AB
Loney after game: returns to mother ship
I like the way this is going…the Giants are off…the Dogs are burning up their bullpen in CO….and, Maddox (and Lowe) willl be on short rest. Bonds and the rest of the Giants must be licking their chops.
Maybe we can cut a deal with the D’backs? Keep it competitive, but not too competitive tonight through Saturday, and we’ll field a team that will make Webb look like Cy Young on Sunday.
Good, clean, error-free baseball today in Denver.
Somethings gotta be going on with the umpire or something. Has there ever been 35 walks in a single MLB game?
dodgers this inning hitting .833/.889/2.667 for an OPS of 3.556
Denver Broncos hosting USC (?)
17-10
we’re all such smartasses. I love it.
Can we get 200 non-IGD posts today?
There’s my error. Thank you Garret Atkins. How could his concentration possibly have wandered?
I’m taking Vinny Castilla in today’s first position player to pitch in relief pool.
oh my god, Marlon Anderson is such a scrub!
Vinny’s already been burned as a PH.
I’m going with the Choo man. 1IP, 6H, 6ER 2BB.
Write it down.
Also, not really sure how this is going to hurt the LA bully. Saito, Broxton, Carrera, Tomko, and Dessens are all still available.
Damn, I didn’t check to see whether he was a PH or not before I made my pick, and by the time I fired up gameday the Rox were finally out of the inning.
It’s alright man, you still have some options. Olmedo Saeieanz is still available.
It appears that Penny left the game early with back spasms, so he may be done for the regular season.
17-11 Helton RBI single
So…Frank Robinson is out after the season for the Nats. At least Boch will have options when you all run him out of town.
Whoa! Wait…what just happened?
7 pitches for Affeldt. He’s AWESOME!
Rox need points
Tomko’s in – we got a chance…
crap, there goes Choo.
did the 2 teams call truce? 6 up, 6 down in 7th
I think the Dodgers are tired of running…they’re still not quite used to the altitude.
Houston wins 3-0, Nady strikes out to end the game.
the dodgers are at it again, 2 men on, 1 out
I DO NOT want to see Houston in the Playoffs…Rooting very hard against them…despite the fact that I will be in Houston and could go to the games the next 2 weeks.
They are the one team that I think really would scare the Padres. We have a legit shot against everyone, but Houston’s starting 3 are SCARY!!!
Oswalt is very scary.
CM & FF – so is Pujols – I’ve stopped rooting for an opponent and just want to wrap up the division…
19-11
FWIW, a Dodger win eliminates Houston from the Wild Card. They would have to win the Central to make the playoffs. Go Cards (and anyone playing Philly)!
Dogs win 19-11
Peter Friberg, you do not fear Oswalt? DOMINATION!
We are not a squad, but a sqad. Be terrified and DOMINATED!
Maybe the snakes will roll over for us like the Rockies did for LA.
#212 & 213
All that hard work catching up to the Cards, to fall just short, is really going to sting. That’ll really suck.
On a lighter note, gotta love The Onion.
I don’t care who we play — just want us to get to the dance.
So here is a question…
Who is your starting rotation for the playoffs?
#2 who does boch go with as his top 3?
I say, Peavy, Young, Hensley…
Betting that Boch goes Peavy, Young, and (*gasp) Wells…
Wells won’t make the roster if he still has gout.
My gosh. I’m still trying to come to grips with the fact that we traded a promising minor league hitter for a fat, 42-year old, Bad Company fan with gout.
Yeah AWD-Sqad (BTW, is that truck or some kind of wimpy-chick SUV?) I’m terrified, just like 1998…
Besides AWD-Sqad, we have Geoff Blum now, and ‘Stros fan know what the Blummer can do…
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[...] A fine thing to say, but Cla’s a victim of circumstance and, as per Padsblog Ducksnorts, an over-reliant manager. May Brad Lidge have mercy on his soul. [...]