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	<title>Comments on: IGD: Padres @ Diamondbacks (20 Aug 08)</title>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-236379</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-236379</guid>
		<description>#70@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-236253&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tom Waits&lt;/a&gt;: Appreciate your take on VORP. In your judgement, what is the best measurement regarding player performance ?  What are your preference(s) as far as measurement ?  Can we consider Gerut&#039;s performance as being much better than Victorino&#039;s simply based on OPS+ or do we look at OPS+ &amp; VORP, giving equal weight to both ?  Are there any others ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#70@<a href="#comment-236253" rel="nofollow">Tom Waits</a>: Appreciate your take on VORP. In your judgement, what is the best measurement regarding player performance ?  What are your preference(s) as far as measurement ?  Can we consider Gerut&#8217;s performance as being much better than Victorino&#8217;s simply based on OPS+ or do we look at OPS+ &amp; VORP, giving equal weight to both ?  Are there any others ?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Waits</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-236253</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Waits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-236253</guid>
		<description>#68@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-235867&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;JP&lt;/a&gt;: VORP is sort of a hybrid counting stat / rate stat, similar to Win Shares in that regard. A mediocre player can pile up VORP by playing 162 games, while a great player could hit the same mark in 60% fewer games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#68@<a href="#comment-235867" rel="nofollow">JP</a>: VORP is sort of a hybrid counting stat / rate stat, similar to Win Shares in that regard. A mediocre player can pile up VORP by playing 162 games, while a great player could hit the same mark in 60% fewer games.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Richardson</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-236031</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Richardson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-236031</guid>
		<description>#36@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-234717&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Coonce&lt;/a&gt;: 

You should probably leave the insults and derision to someone better at it, like me. Quoting Ben completely out of context just makes you appear to be a fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#36@<a href="#comment-234717" rel="nofollow">David Coonce</a>: </p>
<p>You should probably leave the insults and derision to someone better at it, like me. Quoting Ben completely out of context just makes you appear to be a fool.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-235867</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-235867</guid>
		<description>#61@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-234756&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Richard Wade&lt;/a&gt;: True, Victorino&#039;s OPS + is only 103 while Gerut&#039;s is a whopping 133. However, according to BP&#039;s VORP rating they are basically equal, with Victorino at 24.8 compared to Gerut&#039;s 23.7. 

It would be somewhat surprising, considering his past history of knee problems and his age/lack of consistent performance track record, to see a club offer big bucks and a 3 year guarantee to Gerut ~ I am still fairly sure that the Padres can sign him to a 2 year deal at a decent price.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#61@<a href="#comment-234756" rel="nofollow">Richard Wade</a>: True, Victorino&#8217;s OPS + is only 103 while Gerut&#8217;s is a whopping 133. However, according to BP&#8217;s VORP rating they are basically equal, with Victorino at 24.8 compared to Gerut&#8217;s 23.7. </p>
<p>It would be somewhat surprising, considering his past history of knee problems and his age/lack of consistent performance track record, to see a club offer big bucks and a 3 year guarantee to Gerut ~ I am still fairly sure that the Padres can sign him to a 2 year deal at a decent price.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-235641</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-235641</guid>
		<description>#57@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-234749&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;malcolm&lt;/a&gt;: &quot;Unfortunately thatâ€™s less than 30% whereas he works his way to 2 strikes 50% of the time at which point he hits .203.&quot;

I think this is true of basically everyone though.  The further behind in the count you are, generally speaking, the worse you hit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#57@<a href="#comment-234749" rel="nofollow">malcolm</a>: &#8220;Unfortunately thatâ€™s less than 30% whereas he works his way to 2 strikes 50% of the time at which point he hits .203.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this is true of basically everyone though.  The further behind in the count you are, generally speaking, the worse you hit.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-235638</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-235638</guid>
		<description>#65@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-235470&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Alan&lt;/a&gt;: I wonder if defense was more demanding during the deadball era for 3B due to more bunting.  There may have been fewer DP opportunities as well, I suppose, if runners were constantly trying to advnace themselves with the steal or via hit &amp; run due to the low offense.  Could be a good SABR study if no one has looked at it before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#65@<a href="#comment-235470" rel="nofollow">Alan</a>: I wonder if defense was more demanding during the deadball era for 3B due to more bunting.  There may have been fewer DP opportunities as well, I suppose, if runners were constantly trying to advnace themselves with the steal or via hit &amp; run due to the low offense.  Could be a good SABR study if no one has looked at it before.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-235470</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-235470</guid>
		<description>Yep -- in the early thirties, 2B and 3B basically changed positions on the defensive spectrum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep &#8212; in the early thirties, 2B and 3B basically changed positions on the defensive spectrum.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Parish</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-235390</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-235390</guid>
		<description>On the question of third base as &quot;always&quot; this or that, let me quote from Bill James&#039; &lt;i&gt;Historical Baseball abstract&lt;/i&gt;:

&quot;Until the early part of the thirties, third base was not considered the domain of sluggers and high-average men. Defense was the only quality requested of a third baseman. This is reflected in the presence of so few third basemen in the Hall of Fame; the old joke was that third basemen should pay their way into the park because nobody knew who they were. [Harlond] Clift was one of the men who helped change that image.&quot;

Even as late as the 1960s there were third basemen like Clete Boyer or Aurelio Rodriguez (and in the &#039;70s the Padres tried to turn Billy Almon into a third baseman!), but I don&#039;t think that a player like that would get anywhere these days. (I could be wrong, of course; I&#039;m not as up on the current situation as I once was.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the question of third base as &#8220;always&#8221; this or that, let me quote from Bill James&#8217; <i>Historical Baseball abstract</i>:</p>
<p>&#8220;Until the early part of the thirties, third base was not considered the domain of sluggers and high-average men. Defense was the only quality requested of a third baseman. This is reflected in the presence of so few third basemen in the Hall of Fame; the old joke was that third basemen should pay their way into the park because nobody knew who they were. [Harlond] Clift was one of the men who helped change that image.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even as late as the 1960s there were third basemen like Clete Boyer or Aurelio Rodriguez (and in the &#8217;70s the Padres tried to turn Billy Almon into a third baseman!), but I don&#8217;t think that a player like that would get anywhere these days. (I could be wrong, of course; I&#8217;m not as up on the current situation as I once was.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-234759</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-234759</guid>
		<description>Adams: 2.03 ERA, 52Ks and 14 walks in 44.1 innings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adams: 2.03 ERA, 52Ks and 14 walks in 44.1 innings</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/08/igd-padres-diamondbacks-20-aug-08.html/comment-page-2#comment-234758</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 06:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2706#comment-234758</guid>
		<description>Kouzmanoff: .280/.317/.459</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kouzmanoff: .280/.317/.459</p>
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