Please Help, My Shortstop Is Broken

My latest article at Hardball Times deals with Khalil Greene’s disappointing season. Here’s something I uncovered in my research that didn’t make the final cut. These are Greene’s home/road splits in seasonal notation (i.e., per 162 games — thank you, Baseball-Reference, for making it so easy):

Khalil Greene at Petco Park, 2004-2008
Statistics are courtesy of Baseball-Reference and are through games of July 29, 2008.
2004 513 56 123 15 6 6 65 83 108 .241 .345 .338
2005 573 59 146 30 2 15 97 28 110 .256 .285 .399
2006 553 56 116 21 2 16 72 51 137 .210 .282 .346
2007 620 76 134 31 6 25 85 31 164 .216 .258 .412
2008 591 51 129 18 3 21 42 51 129 .218 .295 .365


Khalil Greene away from Petco Park, 2004-2008
Statistics are courtesy of Baseball-Reference and are through games of July 29, 2008.
2004 618 101 186 58 2 29 87 38 111 .301 .353 .543
2005 594 78 145 50 2 25 89 39 139 .244 .308 .465
2006 549 92 154 47 2 23 74 53 95 .280 .356 .507
2007 673 111 193 61 0 31 119 35 107 .288 .322 .519
2008 612 42 129 29 3 9 68 16 181 .212 .225 .317

Just for grins, I dug up comparable player-seasons while I was under the metaphorical hood. This is kind of esoteric, but the basic idea is to get some sense of the type of hitter Greene has been at home and on the road since Petco Park opened:

Khalil Greene Home and Road Comps, 2004-2008
Year Home Comp Road Comp
Statistics are courtesy of Baseball-Reference.
2004 Pepe Mangual ’75 Will Clark ’91
2005 Corey Patterson ’02 Shane Andrews ’98
2006 Devon White ’90 Tim Wallach ’94
2007 Billy Cowan ’64 Andres Galarraga ’95
2008 Ron Santo ’62 Andres Thomas ’89

The way to read this is, “In 2004, Greene’s home numbers were a lot like Pepe Mangual’s 1975 overall numbers; Greene’s road numbers were a lot like Will Clark’s 1991 overall numbers.” Suffice to say, when your performance calls to mind Andres Galarraga one year and Andres Thomas the next, that’s not good.

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97 Responses »

  1. Gosh, listening to XX is depressing. Between Tutino and Kentera and the callers, it’s too much.

  2. is reporting that Man-Ram is now a Dodger.

  3. #53@KRS1: I actually applaud that deal if only because it will be interesting to see what Colletti gave up this time.

  4. #53@KRS1: at least we’re not contending… we could not have equaled that kind of short-season maneuver….

  5. #54@Bruce: Me too, hopefully they gave up some of that young talent they had. I would gladly have them aquire Manny for a few months than have to face some of those kids for the next 10 years.

  6. Ken Rosenthal: “The Pirates will receive Andy LaRoche and right-hander Bryan Morris from the Dodgers and outfielder Damien Moss and releiver Craig Hansen from the Red Sox.

    The Red Sox will pay all of the approximately $7 million remaining on Ramirez’s contract.”

  7. So I’m getting on a plane out of Newark, NJ tomorrow headed for Petco Park to see the Padres play at Petco and not on the East Coast for the first time in my life. Earlier this week it was looking like a pretty exciting night at Petco. I thought I was going to see Peavy vs. Lincecum, as well as my favorite pro athlete of all, Khalil Greene (yes, he’s still my favorite). So I wake up this morning to discover that: Friday match-up changed to Linceum vs. Banks (at least it won’t be a 20 inning game now and my wife won’t complain); Khalil Greene lets out the frustration, breaks his left hand and is out maybe for the rest of the year; and the Dodgers just got Manny Ramirez!?!?! (according to

    What I’m most heartbroken about is Khalil though (At this point I don’t care if Manny leads the Dodgers to the NL West title). The positive here for Greene fans? With a broken hand and the season he had offensively, there is next to no concern he’s going anywhere but back to San Diego next year. Right? Am I the only Greene fan left?

  8. I think it might be a big blessing in disguise that Greene is hurt. It is time to move away from these all or nothing, free swinging hitters. Maybe Kouz can break his foot kicking a water cooler tonight.

  9. #57@Bruce: Strange move for the Dodgers. Manny helps them a little this season (especially since they aren’t paying for him). I assume that they aren’t going to pick up his $20m option for next season. So is 2 months of Manny (and the pick if they can offer him arbitration and he declines it) worth giving up LaRoche and Morris?

  10. #58@Keith in New Jersey: No, I’m a huge Greene fan myself. I hope he can rebuild his career next year. But it’s pretty depressing right now.

  11. #57@Bruce: At first blush that doesn’t seem like much when two offensive giants are moving. Morris has very good numbers but is in low A; LaRoche has big upside; Hansen’s a reliever; Moss (Brandon, not Damian) looks like a below-average offensive OF.

  12. #60@Schlom: Sure, it’s worth it. Flags fly forever. There are questions about LaRoche, and while Morris is a great-looking prospect he’s 3-4 years away, in a system that is loaded with arms.

  13. #59@charlie chan: It is always nice to celebrate an injury.

  14. Not celebrating at all. Just trying to look at the bright side for the team. This forces them to make a break with him, temporarily at least.

  15. #63@Tom Waits: One question I have about the Manny trade is it seems to work for everyone except Pittsburgh.

    If, according to ESPN, the Pirates turned down sending Bay to Tampa for shortstop Reid Brignac and Jeff Nieman and addionally allegedly turned down Jack Wilson straight up for Andy LaRoche – wouldn’t that have been a better deal?

    Hansen and Moss are nice, but I think I would have taken Brignac and Nieman over them.

    Again I’m not sure if the facts of this are true.

  16. #60@Schlom: They kept martin, Kemp, Kershaw, Loney, Ethier, gave up a single-A pitcher and a prospect who had been very spotty this year for one of the best right handed bats in the league. With their pitching they now have a legitimate shot in the playoffs. I’d say it was worth it. It’s not a very good comparison, but if the Padres were in their position and gave up Blanks and Inman for Manny I would be ecstatic.

  17. #66@John Conniff: I read it was Tampa pulling Brignac back, but then I also read that Pittsburgh wanted somebody besides Niemann. Some skepticism of Niemann is warranted, and Morris does have a live arm.

    When players like Bay and Ramirez are moving, it sure does seem like a team that facilitated it would have been able to pick up more. I do give them kudos for realizing that no matter how good Bay is, they’re not winning next year.

    I expect what they’re hoping with Wilson is to grab another group of prospects, rather than a one-for-one. He could be a big name on the trade market this winter if he keeps his average up.

  18. Why didn’t the Dodgers just trade for Jason Bay? He’s a better player now than Manny is, he’s reasonably extended to next year, and the Red Sox only threw in a middle reliever and a fourth outfielder type, so it wouldn’t have killed the Dodgers to upgrade and get Bay.

    The deal isn’t great for Pittsburgh either; the Sox just made out really well.

  19. #68@Tom Waits: I read, and again this is all specualtion – I think it was from Jayson Stark – that Tampa was ok with the first two, but then started to ask for one of the top three pitchers and sank the deal.

    Both Nieman and Brignac have some negatives, but if they had a chance to get LaRoche straight up for Wilson…just strange.

  20. #69@Ben B.: Good point, the only think I can think of is the Dodger may not have been willing to give up enough prospects.

  21. #69@Ben B.:

    That’s funny considering some of the comments out there by Sox fans.

  22. #72@Stephen: They’re losing one of the best hitters of all time, even if he’s in decline, and a guy who was part of two World Series. I can understand some confusion and bitterness.

    If they’re upset about Hansen and Moss, that’s crazy.

  23. #73@Tom Waits: Exactly. “We’re giving up Manny, paying his salary and giving up two more players?” Some of the Fox/ESPN comments were amusing. One guy referred to Moss and Hansen as hot prospects and referred to Bay as “halfway decent.”

  24. #74@Stephen: “Halfway decent” is apparently code for “better than Manny Ramirez.”

  25. So Luis Rodriguez is our SS for the rest of the season? Geez. At least they don’t have to bring in Manny Alexander again.

    I’m guessing they activate Iguchi, DFA Corey, and promote another position player before tomorrow. Does anyone out there really care, though? I barely do.

    Peter Ciofrone would be an interesting guy to take a look at coming off the bench since he can play LF, RF, 3B, and 2B and he’s having a great year in Portland. And then there’s the whole 27 game hitting streak. He deserves a shot.

  26. The best thing is that the Dodgers have $17m worth of outfielders sitting on the bench now (Jones at $9m and Pierre at $8m, leaving out signing bonuses and all that). They are paying their starting outfielders (Manny, Ethier, Kemp) $830,000 (0 for many, $406k for Kemp, $425k for Ethier). That’s a good use of resources.

  27. One implication of the dodgers trade is that AGon now has competition for the BroBI lead not that the LaRoche brothers are united in Pittsburgh..

  28. Wow!!! I just realized folks!! I personally can help out the shortstop situation as soon as tomorrow! Damian Jackson (might be an upgrade from Rodriguez?) recently signed with Long Island Ducks (Independent). I’m boarding a plane tomorrow morning 9 am EST out of Newark and will be at Petco for tomorrow night’s game. I know things are rough, but I’m pretty sure Jackson would rather be back at shortstop at Petco instead of playing independent ball in the arm pit of the East Coast, Long Island. Anyone have his number (assuming he has the same phone from 2005)? I’ll get him on my flight! We land in San Diego around 1 pm Pacific time. Can Jackson be any worse a situation that the current shortstop scenario in the Padre organization?

  29. With the trade deadline passed, DePo has a good look at what’s next …

  30. #81@Keith in New Jersey: Way to be thinkin’ outside the box … but I think the answer to your bottom line question is “yes, he can be worse” … did he play last year?

    It doesn’t look like he was even in the minors in 2007 …

    (there’s a link there to data about his time in minors)

  31. 81: sign ‘em up baby! I love DJ! If we can’t get him, I think Donaldo Mendez is playing in the Atlantic League as well.

    Can we bring back Blummer?

  32. OT … There are plenty of examples in baseball history of guys being “rushed to the majors” … the latest example is the Rangers with Tommy Hunter …

  33. #84@Nick G: Just to be clear about B(l)um, his OPS+ is *69*!

    Be careful … be very careful.

    (and yes, I do know that Luis Rodriquez’ OPS+ is *10* :-( )

  34. I’m glad Maddux didn’t get traded.

  35. reports felipe lopez was released by the nationals….is it almost practically required that we pick him up? hes no matter what an upgrade over luis rodriguez even with the off year that he is having

  36. Out of the Brett Dowdy, Sean Kazmar & Craig Stansberry group that can play shortstop is there any of the 3 that the Pads may want to find out about ?

  37. #85@LynchMob: The Rangers are almost literally *out* of starting pitchers that have a chance to be fairly competitive and contribute.

    By the way, did the Pads “rush” 21 year old Andy Benes when they brought him up in August of 1989 ?

    Heck, I wish the Padres had someone to rush to the major leagues !

  38. When DePo justifies keeping Corey in the pen because they don’t want to rush anyone who the heck is he thinking of NOT rushing ?

  39. When DePo says we don’t want to rush any pitchers up to the big club it’s code for *we don’t really have anyone to rush*

  40. You guys are all half-empty folks – the last two times Khalil broke his hand/fingers, we’ve made the play-offs. This is the start of an amazing two-month run (double the Rockies run from last year), with Luis Rodriguez leading from the front.

  41. #93@JP: Well, there’s pretty much the whole starting rotation in Double A that could potentially be brought up, but that would be “rushing” them.

  42. Nats have released Felipe Lopez, think the pads may have any intrest in him to fill in for KG while he is out?

  43. 96: I’d rather see Lopez playing everyday than Luis Rodriguez…