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	<title>Comments on: Three Pitchers and a Former GM</title>
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	<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html</link>
	<description>Blogging the San Diego Padres baseball club. Established 1997.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185708</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 08:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185708</guid>
		<description>#107@&lt;a href="#comment-185627" rel="nofollow"&gt;Tom Waits&lt;/a&gt;: I wasn't addressing his comments on chemistry, but rather his daily repetition of the same arguments he made the day before.  It's not a matter of groupthink, it's a matter of one commenter hijacking every single comment thread with the same previously addressed arguments.

I meant my comment more as a "don't feed the trolls" sort.  Feel free to make your own judgment, but I think it degrades the quality of discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#107@<a href="#comment-185627" rel="nofollow">Tom Waits</a>: I wasn&#8217;t addressing his comments on chemistry, but rather his daily repetition of the same arguments he made the day before.  It&#8217;s not a matter of groupthink, it&#8217;s a matter of one commenter hijacking every single comment thread with the same previously addressed arguments.</p>
<p>I meant my comment more as a &#8220;don&#8217;t feed the trolls&#8221; sort.  Feel free to make your own judgment, but I think it degrades the quality of discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Young</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185639</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 03:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185639</guid>
		<description>#106@&lt;a href="#comment-185582" rel="nofollow"&gt;Richard Wade&lt;/a&gt;, #107@&lt;a href="#comment-185627" rel="nofollow"&gt;Tom Waits&lt;/a&gt;: Thanks, guys, you've made your points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#106@<a href="#comment-185582" rel="nofollow">Richard Wade</a>, #107@<a href="#comment-185627" rel="nofollow">Tom Waits</a>: Thanks, guys, you&#8217;ve made your points.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Waits</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185627</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Waits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 02:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185627</guid>
		<description>#106@&lt;a href="#comment-185582" rel="nofollow"&gt;Richard Wade&lt;/a&gt;: How you just let it be and not tell me or anyone else what you think we should do? It's an ugly situation when groupthink takes over. 

His comments on team chemistry are spot-on. The 96 and 98 teams supposedly won because of great chemistry. Well, sure, if by "chemistry" people mean fat-soluble organic compounds with 17 carbon atoms arranged in four rings, not team golf outings or barbecues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#106@<a href="#comment-185582" rel="nofollow">Richard Wade</a>: How you just let it be and not tell me or anyone else what you think we should do? It&#8217;s an ugly situation when groupthink takes over. </p>
<p>His comments on team chemistry are spot-on. The 96 and 98 teams supposedly won because of great chemistry. Well, sure, if by &#8220;chemistry&#8221; people mean fat-soluble organic compounds with 17 carbon atoms arranged in four rings, not team golf outings or barbecues.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185582</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 01:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185582</guid>
		<description>Just ignore Schlom, people.  He has absolutely nothing to say worth addressing at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just ignore Schlom, people.  He has absolutely nothing to say worth addressing at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: Schlom</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185558</link>
		<dc:creator>Schlom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 00:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185558</guid>
		<description>#102@&lt;a href="#comment-185546" rel="nofollow"&gt;JP&lt;/a&gt;: Personally I think all that chemistry stuff is BS.  It's a chicken or egg argument, what comes first the winning or the chemistry?  Since it's not measurable we can never know.

That thought is the same way Yankees fans think that they'd be better off with a Scott Brosius at 3B then A-Rod.  Since the teams were different when they each played you can't quantify the difference it's easy to chalk up the differences "We won 4 WS with Brosius, none with ARod so obviously the reason we aren't winning is ARod."  The same thing with team chemistry.  The Padres didn't win in 1997 because of poor team chemistry but then they got Wally Joyner in 1998 so they went to the WS."  Nevermind the acquisition of Kevin Brown.

That statement you made in #97 was exactly what the LA media used to run DePo out of town as well as the same way they attack Billy Beane and "moneyball."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#102@<a href="#comment-185546" rel="nofollow">JP</a>: Personally I think all that chemistry stuff is BS.  It&#8217;s a chicken or egg argument, what comes first the winning or the chemistry?  Since it&#8217;s not measurable we can never know.</p>
<p>That thought is the same way Yankees fans think that they&#8217;d be better off with a Scott Brosius at 3B then A-Rod.  Since the teams were different when they each played you can&#8217;t quantify the difference it&#8217;s easy to chalk up the differences &#8220;We won 4 WS with Brosius, none with ARod so obviously the reason we aren&#8217;t winning is ARod.&#8221;  The same thing with team chemistry.  The Padres didn&#8217;t win in 1997 because of poor team chemistry but then they got Wally Joyner in 1998 so they went to the WS.&#8221;  Nevermind the acquisition of Kevin Brown.</p>
<p>That statement you made in #97 was exactly what the LA media used to run DePo out of town as well as the same way they attack Billy Beane and &#8220;moneyball.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Waits</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185555</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Waits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 00:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185555</guid>
		<description>Peter, forgot to say that it's good to see back in DSville.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, forgot to say that it&#8217;s good to see back in DSville.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185547</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 00:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185547</guid>
		<description>#101@&lt;a href="#comment-185540" rel="nofollow"&gt;Tom Waits&lt;/a&gt;: Your right of course...again, I was being reactionary. I'm tired.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#101@<a href="#comment-185540" rel="nofollow">Tom Waits</a>: Your right of course&#8230;again, I was being reactionary. I&#8217;m tired.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185546</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 00:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185546</guid>
		<description>#100@&lt;a href="#comment-185538" rel="nofollow"&gt;Schlom&lt;/a&gt;: Allow me to explain w/o being so reactionary. 

Intangibles &#38; Variance. I have watched enough baseball to know that some roles in winning baseball cannot be measured by stats alone. Stats are a huge part of the equation but not all to undertstanding the prismatic culture that is TEAM SPORTS and for that matter life.   

To me, it seems wise to balance out some of your fanatical positions (single set of assumptions based largely on a good dose of hindsight) with an acknowledgement that when BBlack says that Estes has quite a bit of life on his fastball and he performs well in a dozen or more starts at AAA that giving Estes a shot ain't such a bad idea..even in light of what he did in 2003.

Exceptions to rules are what makes the game fun dude. 

That gutsy Estes start against all odds last night can go a long way towards giving this club some spirit. Remember Fernando Valuenzuela's 1996 Padres season after 5 pretty bad years ? I can just imagine what your April and May posts would have looked like that year.  

KTowers - May 2008 
Wally Joyner improved the chemistry of our club and a real strong character guy into our clubhouse. And I don't think we would have won the division in '96 and '98 and went to the World Series without Wally Joyner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#100@<a href="#comment-185538" rel="nofollow">Schlom</a>: Allow me to explain w/o being so reactionary. </p>
<p>Intangibles &amp; Variance. I have watched enough baseball to know that some roles in winning baseball cannot be measured by stats alone. Stats are a huge part of the equation but not all to undertstanding the prismatic culture that is TEAM SPORTS and for that matter life.   </p>
<p>To me, it seems wise to balance out some of your fanatical positions (single set of assumptions based largely on a good dose of hindsight) with an acknowledgement that when BBlack says that Estes has quite a bit of life on his fastball and he performs well in a dozen or more starts at AAA that giving Estes a shot ain&#8217;t such a bad idea..even in light of what he did in 2003.</p>
<p>Exceptions to rules are what makes the game fun dude. </p>
<p>That gutsy Estes start against all odds last night can go a long way towards giving this club some spirit. Remember Fernando Valuenzuela&#8217;s 1996 Padres season after 5 pretty bad years ? I can just imagine what your April and May posts would have looked like that year.  </p>
<p>KTowers - May 2008<br />
Wally Joyner improved the chemistry of our club and a real strong character guy into our clubhouse. And I don&#8217;t think we would have won the division in &#8216;96 and &#8216;98 and went to the World Series without Wally Joyner.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Waits</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185540</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Waits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 23:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185540</guid>
		<description>#97@&lt;a href="#comment-185533" rel="nofollow"&gt;JP&lt;/a&gt;: You don't understand what stat geeks are saying (or they're not saying it clearly enough) if you think that they really believe that past performance is a TOTAL and COMPLETE indicator of anything. But they're exponentially more accurate than going by what a guy did in one game or one week or one month. 

The better statistical models of player performance, like PECOTA, have categories for "Breakout" and "Collapse," which represent players doing things very different than they've done in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#97@<a href="#comment-185533" rel="nofollow">JP</a>: You don&#8217;t understand what stat geeks are saying (or they&#8217;re not saying it clearly enough) if you think that they really believe that past performance is a TOTAL and COMPLETE indicator of anything. But they&#8217;re exponentially more accurate than going by what a guy did in one game or one week or one month. </p>
<p>The better statistical models of player performance, like PECOTA, have categories for &#8220;Breakout&#8221; and &#8220;Collapse,&#8221; which represent players doing things very different than they&#8217;ve done in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Schlom</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2008/05/three-pitchers-and-a-former-gm.html#comment-185538</link>
		<dc:creator>Schlom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 23:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/?p=2521#comment-185538</guid>
		<description>#97@&lt;a href="#comment-185533" rel="nofollow"&gt;JP&lt;/a&gt;: That's the attitude that got Paul DePodesta run out of town in Los Angeles by Bill Plaschke and TJ Simers.  Kind of funny since the very first thing that GY mentioned in today's post was DePo's new blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#97@<a href="#comment-185533" rel="nofollow">JP</a>: That&#8217;s the attitude that got Paul DePodesta run out of town in Los Angeles by Bill Plaschke and TJ Simers.  Kind of funny since the very first thing that GY mentioned in today&#8217;s post was DePo&#8217;s new blog.</p>
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