Comments on: Wolf, Peavy, and Winter Leagues http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:39:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: The Fathers http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-122909 The Fathers Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:52:09 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-122909 Re 38: For some, the reason to trust the Forbes figures is because they are NOT sanctioned by MLB. For me, the reasons to trust Forbes numbers are: (1) it is the only game in town; (2) I do have some rudimentary understanding of financial and accounting terms; and (3) the numbers make sense. They are not perfect, and I do take portions of them with huge grains of salt, particularly for teams with substantial interested party transactions. If something comes along that is better, I am all for it. Re 38: For some, the reason to trust the Forbes figures is because they are NOT sanctioned by MLB.

For me, the reasons to trust Forbes numbers are: (1) it is the only game in town; (2) I do have some rudimentary understanding of financial and accounting terms; and (3) the numbers make sense.

They are not perfect, and I do take portions of them with huge grains of salt, particularly for teams with substantial interested party transactions.

If something comes along that is better, I am all for it.

]]> By: The Fathers http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-122906 The Fathers Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:48:37 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-122906 Re 37: There are some serious math and analytical errors in your comparisons. 1. The 2007 Forbes numbers are for 2006 revenue. 2. The 2007 salary figures from Cot's are good on an individual basis but since they are only for starting amounts - the Padres increased theirs over the season; not so much the Cardinals - they are worthless for analysis purposes. 3. 20% of what increased in 2007? The amount of money MLB gave to teams? Local revenue for the Padres? Without context, you need to wait for the 2008 Forbes numbers to get a glimpse of what Padres revenue was in 2007. 4. No question the Cardinals spend more on major league payroll as a percentage of team revenue than the Padres. This makes sense because they are free agent heavy. By any reasonable estimation, the Padres spend more on front office personnel and minor league development/international player acquistion (some of this is catch up spending) than the Cardinals. Both teams have stadium debt - this explains to me why Cardinals payroll has stagnated since new Busch opened; not sure how much each team has to make on yearly interest payments. Re 37: There are some serious math and analytical errors in your comparisons.

1. The 2007 Forbes numbers are for 2006 revenue.

2. The 2007 salary figures from Cot’s are good on an individual basis but since they are only for starting amounts – the Padres increased theirs over the season; not so much the Cardinals – they are worthless for analysis purposes.

3. 20% of what increased in 2007? The amount of money MLB gave to teams? Local revenue for the Padres? Without context, you need to wait for the 2008 Forbes numbers to get a glimpse of what Padres revenue was in 2007.

4. No question the Cardinals spend more on major league payroll as a percentage of team revenue than the Padres. This makes sense because they are free agent heavy. By any reasonable estimation, the Padres spend more on front office personnel and minor league development/international player acquistion (some of this is catch up spending) than the Cardinals. Both teams have stadium debt – this explains to me why Cardinals payroll has stagnated since new Busch opened; not sure how much each team has to make on yearly interest payments.

]]> By: Coronado Mike http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-122158 Coronado Mike Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:30:03 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-122158 Pat...I don't think Rice belongs in, I just don't think Trammel has that much more of a case than Rice does. Pat…I don’t think Rice belongs in, I just don’t think Trammel has that much more of a case than Rice does.

]]> By: Pat http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-122035 Pat Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:48:20 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-122035 44: Oh, CM! Am I going to have to school you on Tram like I did on Bly? :-) But seriously, why would you say Tram doesn't have as good a case as Rice? I wouldn't even be comparing them since one was a SS and one a LF. Relative to SS in, Trammell clearly belongs. Where do you feel he falls short? Relative to LF or corner OF, Rice is not nearly so clear a choice, imo. Why do you feel he's such a strong choice? Also, I think the only way someone like Gossage can be considered "borderline" is if you don't consider relief pitcher to be a separate position and simply lump all pitchers in together. Now that is truly stodgy. ;-) 44: Oh, CM! Am I going to have to school you on Tram like I did on Bly? :-)

But seriously, why would you say Tram doesn’t have as good a case as Rice? I wouldn’t even be comparing them since one was a SS and one a LF. Relative to SS in, Trammell clearly belongs. Where do you feel he falls short? Relative to LF or corner OF, Rice is not nearly so clear a choice, imo. Why do you feel he’s such a strong choice?

Also, I think the only way someone like Gossage can be considered “borderline” is if you don’t consider relief pitcher to be a separate position and simply lump all pitchers in together. Now that is truly stodgy. ;-)

]]> By: Tom Waits http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-122005 Tom Waits Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:54:04 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-122005 44: Quite the opposite. The Cardinals were the most successful NL franchise from 2000 to now. That's despite being a mid-market franchise that signed free agents to normal free agent dealsl, didn't invest much in the minor leagues, and traded many of its prospects anyway. 44: Quite the opposite. The Cardinals were the most successful NL franchise from 2000 to now. That’s despite being a mid-market franchise that signed free agents to normal free agent dealsl, didn’t invest much in the minor leagues, and traded many of its prospects anyway.

]]> By: Coronado Mike http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-121975 Coronado Mike Tue, 04 Dec 2007 13:55:28 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-121975 My favorite topic (next to KG) is the HOF...I think I am getting stodgy in my "old" age, but Trammel belongs in there less than Rice...and I am a Trammel fan. Gossage is borderline, but other than that, there really are no players that I think *have* to be put in... Re:16...Tom, are you saying that the Cardinals were "flukes" each of those years? My favorite topic (next to KG) is the HOF…I think I am getting stodgy in my “old” age, but Trammel belongs in there less than Rice…and I am a Trammel fan.

Gossage is borderline, but other than that, there really are no players that I think *have* to be put in…

Re:16…Tom, are you saying that the Cardinals were “flukes” each of those years?

]]> By: James http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-121760 James Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:39:32 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-121760 The host of the MLB Rumors blog is at the Winter meetings and posting information he is gathering by talking to team execs. He has stated that the Padres are moving closer to a deal for either Mark Prior or Josh Towers. Also, they have inquired about the Cardinals pitcher Anthony Reyes, who has 14 losses last season. If the Padres miss out on Fukudome, they could trade a pair of low level prospects for Anthony Reyes and Jim Edmonds. The host of the MLB Rumors blog is at the Winter meetings and posting information he is gathering by talking to team execs. He has stated that the Padres are moving closer to a deal for either Mark Prior or Josh Towers.

Also, they have inquired about the Cardinals pitcher Anthony Reyes, who has 14 losses last season. If the Padres miss out on Fukudome, they could trade a pair of low level prospects for Anthony Reyes and Jim Edmonds.

]]> By: Didi http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-121753 Didi Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:34:30 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-121753 Interesting read on some players. Given how rare these picks turned out to be good, I sure hope KT is more cautious this year than in the past. http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/around_the_minors/ Interesting read on some players.
Given how rare these picks turned out to be good, I sure hope KT is more cautious this year than in the past.

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/around_the_minors/

]]> By: Didi http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-121751 Didi Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:22:18 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-121751 33: Agreed. I just hope he keeps a little bit more support this year. Trammel should be in already. 33: Agreed. I just hope he keeps a little bit more support this year. Trammel should be in already.

]]> By: Didi http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html/comment-page-1#comment-121750 Didi Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:20:59 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/12/wolf-peavy-and-winter-leagues.html#comment-121750 39: Urgh. I hope not. I'd rather stick with Cassel and some other minor league guys than Towers. 39: Urgh. I hope not. I’d rather stick with Cassel and some other minor league guys than Towers.

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