This Date in Ducksnorts (19 Nov)
Mon, Nov 19, 2007
by Geoff Young
Hi there, and welcome to open thread week. Yep, I’m taking a little time off to hang with family and what-not. Here are some blasts from the past to amuse you. Not that you need an invitation from me, but feel free to discuss whatever…
- Harry Potter, Leonid Meteor Shower, and Ryan Leaf (2001). I saw Leaf on a college football telecast the other day. His kid brother was playing quarterback, and Leaf told the reporter how he’d talk to li’l bro’ about staying poised. Unintentional humor is my favorite kind.
- Kotsay for Hernandez (2003). The Twins wanted Jake Peavy for A.J. Pierzynski? I’d forgotten that. Hey, don’t laugh: they got Joe Nathan, Francisco Liriano, and Boof Bonser out of the Giants. Okay, now you can laugh. Also, Terrence Long did return to pre-2002 form in his year here, and Xavier Nady eventually was traded for a center fielder (albeit two years later). I’m a regular Nostradamus.
Picking up where last year's version left off, the Ducksnorts 2008 Baseball Annual provides in-depth analysis of and commentary on the San Diego Padres. Get your copy today.
November 19, 2007 at 9:05 am
Wish there was a good Charger blog, I’ve seen a few, but nother like DS. Open thread: 14-2 to 5-5, same players, different coaches. gotta be the coaches. Its depressing either way and pathetic. Norv has lost the players, but AJ’s ego is safe and happy, as the chances for a new stadium anywhere in SDC disappear. Maybe Kevin Brown can start as QB next week. Tell you one thing, he would be one fierce MFer as quarterback. Funny thing is, it still not too late.
November 19, 2007 at 9:12 am
I think they need to change Norv and both coordinators.
November 19, 2007 at 9:31 am
Angels trade Cabrera for Garland.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3118872
November 19, 2007 at 9:53 am
Best part about watching the Chargers right now is realizing how much I miss the Padres.
November 19, 2007 at 11:33 am
Nice read here:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlo.....e-fleming/
Gobble gobble everybody.
November 19, 2007 at 12:15 pm
#3: I was just talking to a friend of mine who is an Angel fan, a fact that shows the two can coexist, who told me he thinks that this move was to acquire depth in pitching, since they may have to move pitching to get the big bat that they want.
I think that’s wishful thinking.
November 19, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Wow… I just read BA’s Cubs Top 10 scouting reports
http://www.baseballamerica.com.....65209.html (story: free)
http://www.baseballamerica.com.....65189.html (scouting reports: subscription required)
…and 3 names jumped out at me:
Former Padre: Jose Ceda (#4)
…and two guys I really liked in last year’s draft:
Josh Donaldson (#7) http://www.minorleaguebaseball.....pid=518626 - listed as 1B, but he’s playing catcher
&
Tony Thomas (#9) http://www.minorleaguebaseball.....pid=506917
I’d probably take our own Mitch Canham above Donaldson, but Donaldson’s bat might be a tick better. But I definitely would have taken Thomas over Payne or Chaulk.
November 19, 2007 at 12:32 pm
2: I don’t know about changing the coordinators. The defense has actually played better this year than last year and the offensive coordinator isn’t calling the plays, Turner is.
November 19, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Another thing about the Chargers, their biggest problem this year has been the offensive line. Might Hardwick’s injury have something to do with those struggles? After all, the same offensive line coaches are still here from last year.
One last thing to consider: we had the third easiest schedule last year and a top ten schedule this year.
November 19, 2007 at 1:10 pm
7.
I know this isn’t the right place to really go into this but I’m still not really sure how you can say the defense is playing better than last year. The Defense is getting destroyed this year and IMO it’s all on Cotrells shoulders. The fact that the team does not blitz and get a signifigant pass rush is killing them. They are also playing way too much zone in the secondary for a player like McCree to handle.
Also why does Drayton Florance still have a job? If I sucked even half as much at my job as D-Flo does at his I would be homeless. Instead that guy gets toasted on nearly every play in his direction (if he doesn’t it’s because he is being flagged for PI) and then has the nerve to jump around and shout like he just moved a mountain with his own bare hands every time his opposing reciever drops a pass or he has to push a guy out of bounds. There is no authourity on this team and it’s really annoying. They need a vetran presence around to check some of these young ass-clowns every now and then.
November 19, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Re: 9 yup I agree
Also yes Norv calls the plays but if he had a better O-Coordinator then he would not have to. I say blow all three out and start over again.
November 19, 2007 at 1:33 pm
9: I’m not saying they don’t have problems, but the defense wasn’t that good last year.
Compare this year: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php
to last year:
http://www.footballoutsiders.c.....ef2006.php
November 19, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Is there an offensive coordinator this year? I thought it was just Norval running the offense.
Also, to get back to baseball: Khalil Greene: overrated or underrated?
November 19, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Re: 12 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 19, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Underrated
November 19, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Re: 14 its a trap Jack dont fall for it!
November 19, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Now you tell me
November 19, 2007 at 2:08 pm
I think that the expectations for the Chargers are way too high. People are acting like that loss yesterday to the Jaguars was horrible. Personally, I don’t think losing on the road to a now 7-3 team is that bad a loss. If they finish 10-6 or 9-7 and lose in the first round of the playoffs, would that be a disappointing season.
Let’s just Marty and the rest of the coaches were back this season. Would another 14-2 season and first round playoff loss be acceptable. Remember, the goal of the Chargers should be to win the Super Bowl, not to have the best regular season record. With Marty here, the Chargers weren’t going to win the Super Bowl, in fact, they might never win a playoff game. If the fans were fine with a 12-4 or better season and a home playoff loss to a much worse team, I guess they are right to miss Marty.
November 19, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Well Marty would have had problems with year without Cam Cameron and Wade Phillips, any time you loose two great coordinators in the same year there are going to be some set backs.
Would Marty have a better record at this point with his borther running the D and the same offensive coordinator they have now calling the plays (without Norv’s help)?
November 19, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Re: 16 we have gotten into several Khalil Greene debates here and neither side can convince the other of Khalils value. Its like having a religious debate.
November 19, 2007 at 2:22 pm
11.
Well when you look at the Defense by simply looking at the numbers as the NFL keeps them San Diego looks like this.
2006
10th Overall
13th Passing
7th Rushing
2007
27th Overall
25th Passing
21st Rushing
Say what you want about last years D not being very good (I disagree but that’s not importnant) it’s obvious by looking at the numbers we are not nearly as effective as we were last year. We did have our Secondary issues last year as well but at least the corners and safeties were getting help from blitzing inside linebackers and 1 on 1 matchups on the edges. Merriman and Phillips are constantly facing double teams because there is no pressure coming from the middle. When you give any QB in the league all the time he wants to stand in the pocket against a zone coverage they will pick you apart every time.
I will give the coaches credit for teaching the outside backers and linemen to get their hands up more. They are tipping more balls than I ever remember seeing before but that is about where the praise ends.
November 19, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Is someone really trying to argue that this year’s defense is somehow doing better than last year? Really? Wow.
I don’t know, Marty’s brother aint looking too bad right now.
November 19, 2007 at 2:37 pm
21.
I think Coach (Wade) Phillips would have sounded better! Even Rex Ryan would have given this D an identity. Way too much talent to look this inept.
November 19, 2007 at 2:37 pm
We only rush 4 guys on every “passing” down. Watch the tape - it’s enough to make you scream. Cottrell must just be stubborn I guess. It’s like he thinks the strength of the D is the secondary, therefore rush 4 and let your d-backs make plays. Uh, Ted? The best two athletes on the team not named Tomlinson or Gates are the Shawns - Phillips and Merriman. How about getting them in some one-on-one matchups by bringing 5-6 guys every play?
The thing about Wade’s version of this D last year is he knew his secondary sucked and he wanted to take pressure off of them by getting to the passer fast and forcing quick, pressured throws by the QB. This strategy gets you killed if you can’t actually get to the QB, but the Shawns got there a lot - sacks and hurries and batted balls, etc. Ted’s version gives all qbs plenty of time to find the open guy, and with our secondary, there is ALWAYS an open guy somewhere. Even mediocre qbs like Garrard pick us apart like Elway. In hindsight, we’re DAMN lucky New England didn’t hang 50+ on us like they are on everyone else.
November 19, 2007 at 2:40 pm
17, you don’t know if Marty can win a playoff game or not, that’s Marty-bashing BS. Tougher schedule and higher expectations aside, I defy anyone to tell me the chargers are playing well as a team, especially on offense. More pressure is on Rivers, and he ain’t handling it well. The O line is certainly not playing well, but the play calling too seems completely ridiculous at times, like a Pop Warner game. I’m looking for answers why a 14-2 team with 12 probowlers is now 5-5 and are lucky to be at 500, thank you Payton. The D seemed unable to sack or even pressure the QB yesterday and got carved up through the middle. Yes we did stop the run, but news to Mr. Catrell, teams can also pass and 15 yard cushion in the zone is a lot of room for the modern QB to work with. But apparently all is well in the Charger FO because nobody is threatening little AJ’s fragil f***ing ego.
Not to mention this season is killing any chance at a new stadium. I used to be so proud with the SB here in SD. City looked good and everyone loved the weather. But without new digs, it’ll never happen again. Maybe the Chargers really want to leave and AJ is helping them out.
Positive Notes: The pitch plays to LT seemed to really work, gave him time to get some speed and some blockers. Also, Phil’s over the middle passing was very good, cept the INT. The D did stop the run too. And lastly, playoff are still well within reach, 6 games left, and probably 9-7 in the AFC gets you in, that leave two losses and four wins, its certainly posslbe.
Now, when is TH gonna touch home plate?
November 19, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Teams should lock in coordinators to 3-5 year deals like a cell-phone plan. Every year, we loose a coordinator it hurts. Wonder is CC thinks he made a mistake in leaving. Wade, OTOH is doing great. He could be the charger head coach. AJ, AJ, drafting genius but can’t run a front office.
November 19, 2007 at 2:48 pm
I’m fine with the Chargers getting rid of Marty, but thier timing was horrible, fire him after they lost to NE and promote Phillips.
November 19, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Re: 25 Teams do but Coordinators are allowed to leave if its for a head coaching job.
November 19, 2007 at 3:13 pm
27.
Exactly true!
November 19, 2007 at 3:13 pm
The record and how the team has played wouldn’t bug me so much if we had a new first time coach, or an experienced good coach. But since we have Turner who has a record of being a complete loser, and Cotrell, who has a record of being a terrible Deffensive Co., I am worried. I just hope the front office is smart enough to make changes in the offseason.
November 19, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Re: 29 it won’t be intelligence it will be Ego
November 19, 2007 at 3:38 pm
So is anyone else getting really wrestles with the Pads yet? We really have no idea where they are at with CF (other than Hairston), the only back up catcher I have heard KT talk about is Morton, the Jenkins talks have vanished, 2B will be a fight between our # 2 prospect and 3 guys who have never established them selves in tha majors. I know its early but all we have really heard from the Pads is that they are probably not going to re-sign anyone and they might use in house replacements.
November 19, 2007 at 3:39 pm
I think it’s pretty obvious that Marty couldn’t win a playoff game. In 2005 and 2007 he had far superior teams than his opponents and still managed to lose both in heart-breaking fashion — I guess you could say it was bad luck but how many more chances is he going to get? If you look at his career record you can easily see that he’s a great regular season coach and a terrible postseason coach. Now granted, that might be just a sample size issue but how many chances can you afford to give him?
I agree with Steve C., the real loss from the coaching staff wasn’t Marty but Wade Phillips. But he probably wasn’t the long-term answer either so it’s probably not a big deal in the long run that he’s gone.
The Marty situation had parallels with the Bochy-Padre situation also — Bochy was great in the regular season but didn’t seem to be able to get it done in the playoffs. In three of the four postseason appearances, the Padres look woefully unprepared (1996, 2005-2006). They also looked terrible in the WS in 1998. Granted, in some of those seasons they were the worse team (1998 WS, 2005) but that doesn’t explain how they seemed to just roll over and get blown out. Again, it goes back to people’s expectations. Is winning in the regular season enough? Or do people want more?
November 19, 2007 at 5:46 pm
I’m not a fan of Marty, but it’s pretty obvious he can win playoff games, because he has — with other teams. Don’t be so quick to make sweeping indictments.
November 19, 2007 at 5:55 pm
21: Yes, they are trying to argue that. Richard even linked to footballoutsiders.com, which provides advanced metrics on such things. Did you go to those links?
20: If those rankings are for yardage given up, I’m not sure how relevant they are.
How about points give up? That’s what decides game, right? Just like runs scored is more important than batting average or on-base percentage or OPS.
In 2006, the Chargers gave up 18.9 points a game. In 2007, 20.9 points a game. Pretty close.
In 2006, the Chargers scored 30.8 points a game. In 2007, 22.9 points a game. Sounds like the offense is what has changed.
November 19, 2007 at 7:15 pm
When comparing this year’s team and last year’s team, please pay attention to the difference in strength of schedule. This year’s team is facing a top 10 schedule and last year’s team had the third easiest schedule.
We’re allowing the same Yards per Play as last year against this year’s more difficult schedule and we have forced the same number of fumbles and picked off one more pass than we did all of last year.
The offense is clearly worse, but again you have to look at the schedule and also that we’re missing our most important receiver and offensive lineman.
Also, why are we blaming Smith for this? Schottenheimer’s inability to get along with Smith was as much a factor as Smith’s inability to get along with Schottenheimer. Do you really think Turner was Smith’s first choice? He brought in Phillips to replace Schottenheimer. This really all falls on Spanos imo. He either should have fired Schottenheimer before we lost our in-house candidates (both for HC and coordinator positions) or he shouldn’t have fired him at all.
Regardless of who coached this team, they weren’t going to go 14-2 again. At best they were going to go 12-4. When I looked at the schedule, the numbers projected an 11-5 team (assuming no injuries). Through ten games they have lost two games they were projected to win (KC & @MIN) at the start of the season and won one they were projected to lose (@DEN). They sit at 5-5 rather than the 6-4 they were projected for at this point. Looking at the numbers, I think it’s apparent that Minnesota was underrated and Denver was overrated, so the only loss that really bugs me is to Kansas City.
Looking at the remaining schedule, they really should beat Baltimore, Kansas City, Detroit, Denver and Oakland. That would be 10-6 or one game below where they “should” end up.
Last year’s Chargers were winless against top 10 teams (by DVOA). This year’s Chargers have one win against such a team.
November 20, 2007 at 12:04 am
So Bonds finally gets indicted.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html
Seems rather fishy - shortly after a record is broken or a milestone achieved,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00739.html
the disciplinarians get going. Wouldn’t want MLB to miss out on any publicity.
Oh, excuse me. I thought this was a Padres / baseball blog…
November 20, 2007 at 1:29 am
36: Bonds has just about as much to do with the Padres as the Chargers do.
November 20, 2007 at 2:47 am
36: It was an honest mistake on your part. Don’t worry about it.
November 20, 2007 at 7:14 am
Re: 12…Did someone call my name?
November 20, 2007 at 7:27 am
Re: 39 I was waiting for you to rear your Khalil Greene hating head! - j/k
November 20, 2007 at 7:37 am
12: Within the DS community, neither overrated, nor underrated. Within the general Padres fan community, highly overrated.