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	<title>Comments on: Friday Links (31 Aug 07)</title>
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	<description>Blogging the San Diego Padres baseball club. Established 1997.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 05:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Geoff Young</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-2#comment-77284</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-77284</guid>
		<description>#53: Thanks, Rich. We're all Padres fans first. :-)&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-77284"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#53: Thanks, Rich. We&#8217;re all Padres fans first. <img src='http://ducksnorts.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-77284">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Rich Campbell</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-2#comment-77166</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 07:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-77166</guid>
		<description>LOL.... I just think that it's great that this group of Padre fans/bloggers has reached a point where we attract the attention of the national media.

I give much of the credit for that to Geoff, for creating such a good environment.  I give the rest of it to all of us who say what we mean and back it up with data.

Sure,I write my own blog for MVN.  Proud of it.  But I'm a Ducksnorter, too.  Count on it.&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-77166"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL&#8230;. I just think that it&#8217;s great that this group of Padre fans/bloggers has reached a point where we attract the attention of the national media.</p>
<p>I give much of the credit for that to Geoff, for creating such a good environment.  I give the rest of it to all of us who say what we mean and back it up with data.</p>
<p>Sure,I write my own blog for MVN.  Proud of it.  But I&#8217;m a Ducksnorter, too.  Count on it.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-77166">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: dabeef</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-2#comment-76982</link>
		<dc:creator>dabeef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-76982</guid>
		<description>I guess Antonelli's July didnt  mean anything  wow you are such a phony Law&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76982"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess Antonelli&#8217;s July didnt  mean anything  wow you are such a phony Law
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76982">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Tom Waits</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-2#comment-76969</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Waits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 01:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-76969</guid>
		<description>49: In one comment we get Antonelli's August as an example of his limitations, but a dismissal of nearly 4 years of Linebrink's road work, and a half season of Bell away from Petco (with no mention of his minor league record) as too small of sample. 

Petco may have made Bell more confident. It might also be that he knew he wasn't going to shuttle back and forth from the majors to AAA like he did with the Mets. Or being home in San Diego county. Or just growing up some. 

If he was a prospect you liked, I expect we'd read that Antonelli's August is normal fatigue for a player in his first full season as a pro, and lots of words on his 1.200 OPS in July. 

Bias is a loaded term for any journalist, which is why I went to blinders. And then lazy, which....hell, that was a deliberate tweak. What can I say, if there's a fight to be picked, I pick it like I'm going after a booger stuck in the deepest reach of a dry sinus cavity. 

I don't think you're intentionally portraying the Padres as worse than your analysis tells you they are. I don't think you're changing the data. Those would be bias. I suspect that before you ever get to the analysis part, your brain has loaded the near-subconscious Padre filters (Petco! Moneyball!). 

I thought Antonelli was a weak pick too. Ryan Freel, I called him. I believe I underestimated his athleticism and the potential of coaching to get more load in his swing. A 187 ISO with 21 HR changed my mind.&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76969"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>49: In one comment we get Antonelli&#8217;s August as an example of his limitations, but a dismissal of nearly 4 years of Linebrink&#8217;s road work, and a half season of Bell away from Petco (with no mention of his minor league record) as too small of sample. </p>
<p>Petco may have made Bell more confident. It might also be that he knew he wasn&#8217;t going to shuttle back and forth from the majors to AAA like he did with the Mets. Or being home in San Diego county. Or just growing up some. </p>
<p>If he was a prospect you liked, I expect we&#8217;d read that Antonelli&#8217;s August is normal fatigue for a player in his first full season as a pro, and lots of words on his 1.200 OPS in July. </p>
<p>Bias is a loaded term for any journalist, which is why I went to blinders. And then lazy, which&#8230;.hell, that was a deliberate tweak. What can I say, if there&#8217;s a fight to be picked, I pick it like I&#8217;m going after a booger stuck in the deepest reach of a dry sinus cavity. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re intentionally portraying the Padres as worse than your analysis tells you they are. I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re changing the data. Those would be bias. I suspect that before you ever get to the analysis part, your brain has loaded the near-subconscious Padre filters (Petco! Moneyball!). </p>
<p>I thought Antonelli was a weak pick too. Ryan Freel, I called him. I believe I underestimated his athleticism and the potential of coaching to get more load in his swing. A 187 ISO with 21 HR changed my mind.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76969">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Big Padres Fan</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-1#comment-76966</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Padres Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-76966</guid>
		<description>Keith, great points. Good work.&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76966"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, great points. Good work.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76966">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Keith Law</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-1#comment-76964</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-76964</guid>
		<description>I've pointed out more than once that I think the Padres' strategy of acquiring pitchers who can't really pitch anywhere but in an extreme pitchers' park is a smart one. That doesn't mean I like those individual pitchers from a scouting perspective.

Braun needs a position change as well, but unlike Kouzmanoff, his bat will play in an outfield corner, and he's a better athlete than Kouzmanoff, which makes me think he'll be a better defensive LF. 

&lt;i&gt;Antonelli’s banging out XBH and keeping his OBP over 400 in AA and, as far as I know, he’s still a utilityman to you.&lt;/i&gt;

Antonelli has hit .237/.343/.386 in August, so he is neither "banging out XBH" nor "keeping his OBP over .400." That small sample aside, my criticism of Antonelli and the pick was based on two things you did not address: His swing, which I don't like at all; and his lack of a clear position. Now, all that said, I believe Antonelli is scheduled to go to the Arizona Fall League, and I'll see him there and make a new evaluation.

&lt;i&gt;Heath Bell has a lower ERA and better K rate on the road, but you dismissed him as a product of Petco earlier this year. &lt;/i&gt;

The blind faith some people here, Tom included, show in home/road splits really befuddles me. First of all, we know they're small samples and subject to numerous other factors, like the fact that "road" games are more defined by what they are NOT than what they are (that is, not all baskets of road games are equivalent, even for players on the same team). But second of all, this misses the entire point of my argument about Petco and pitchers and the team's strategy, one I talked about again in chat today. The Padres target pitchers who can't succeed in other major-league environments, because their fastballs are short (Hampson, Germano, Meredith) or because their fastball command is poor (Bell, Cameron), but who had good minor-league stats. Having seen some of those pitchers prior to their arrival in San Diego and after, I believe that these pitchers' entire modes of pitching have changed, and the ballpark is a major if not the sole reason for it. These guys pitch off their fastballs far more and with more confidence than I'd ever seen in them before. Bell, for example, was in a pitchers' environment with a pretty highly regarded pitching coach, yet struggled, particularly with the longball; his fastball is flat and he didn't command it. I saw him with the Mets last year, and saw him again last week with the Padres. He's commanding his fastball better, but the difference to me is that he's much more aggressive with it (and with his breaking ball as well), like he's pitching without fear of giving up the long ball, which was a big problem for him with the Mets. He's not afraid to go to the top of the strike zone with his fastball. I've seen the same transformation with Meredith, who actually did surrender two homers in games where I saw him, but still pitches like that's not a fear. The most likely explanation, to me at least, is 81 games in a park where it's very hard to hit the ball out, to say nothing of the 20-25 games a year they get in pitchers' parks on the road.

Recognizing this and tailoring your roster construction strategy to fit it is smart management, something I have said before but that folks like Tom prefer to ignore, saying silly things like "you're biased" instead because it spares them the trouble of thinking. The Padres can spend less on their pen, with only Hoffman currently pulling down seven figures out there, because they know they can find guys like this on the cheap. It keeps money available for other needs. But the same strategy wouldn't work in most other parks, so when someone asks me if I like Heath Bell or if Chris Young is a #2 starter, I'm going to say no, because those are abstract questions that deserve an answer that goes beyond the players' current environment.

Anyway, that's much more than I intended to write when I sat down, but those are my thoughts. As I said above, a lot of this is subjective, and I don't mind the disagreements. But give the bias nonsense a rest.&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76964"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve pointed out more than once that I think the Padres&#8217; strategy of acquiring pitchers who can&#8217;t really pitch anywhere but in an extreme pitchers&#8217; park is a smart one. That doesn&#8217;t mean I like those individual pitchers from a scouting perspective.</p>
<p>Braun needs a position change as well, but unlike Kouzmanoff, his bat will play in an outfield corner, and he&#8217;s a better athlete than Kouzmanoff, which makes me think he&#8217;ll be a better defensive LF. </p>
<p><i>Antonelli’s banging out XBH and keeping his OBP over 400 in AA and, as far as I know, he’s still a utilityman to you.</i></p>
<p>Antonelli has hit .237/.343/.386 in August, so he is neither &#8220;banging out XBH&#8221; nor &#8220;keeping his OBP over .400.&#8221; That small sample aside, my criticism of Antonelli and the pick was based on two things you did not address: His swing, which I don&#8217;t like at all; and his lack of a clear position. Now, all that said, I believe Antonelli is scheduled to go to the Arizona Fall League, and I&#8217;ll see him there and make a new evaluation.</p>
<p><i>Heath Bell has a lower ERA and better K rate on the road, but you dismissed him as a product of Petco earlier this year. </i></p>
<p>The blind faith some people here, Tom included, show in home/road splits really befuddles me. First of all, we know they&#8217;re small samples and subject to numerous other factors, like the fact that &#8220;road&#8221; games are more defined by what they are NOT than what they are (that is, not all baskets of road games are equivalent, even for players on the same team). But second of all, this misses the entire point of my argument about Petco and pitchers and the team&#8217;s strategy, one I talked about again in chat today. The Padres target pitchers who can&#8217;t succeed in other major-league environments, because their fastballs are short (Hampson, Germano, Meredith) or because their fastball command is poor (Bell, Cameron), but who had good minor-league stats. Having seen some of those pitchers prior to their arrival in San Diego and after, I believe that these pitchers&#8217; entire modes of pitching have changed, and the ballpark is a major if not the sole reason for it. These guys pitch off their fastballs far more and with more confidence than I&#8217;d ever seen in them before. Bell, for example, was in a pitchers&#8217; environment with a pretty highly regarded pitching coach, yet struggled, particularly with the longball; his fastball is flat and he didn&#8217;t command it. I saw him with the Mets last year, and saw him again last week with the Padres. He&#8217;s commanding his fastball better, but the difference to me is that he&#8217;s much more aggressive with it (and with his breaking ball as well), like he&#8217;s pitching without fear of giving up the long ball, which was a big problem for him with the Mets. He&#8217;s not afraid to go to the top of the strike zone with his fastball. I&#8217;ve seen the same transformation with Meredith, who actually did surrender two homers in games where I saw him, but still pitches like that&#8217;s not a fear. The most likely explanation, to me at least, is 81 games in a park where it&#8217;s very hard to hit the ball out, to say nothing of the 20-25 games a year they get in pitchers&#8217; parks on the road.</p>
<p>Recognizing this and tailoring your roster construction strategy to fit it is smart management, something I have said before but that folks like Tom prefer to ignore, saying silly things like &#8220;you&#8217;re biased&#8221; instead because it spares them the trouble of thinking. The Padres can spend less on their pen, with only Hoffman currently pulling down seven figures out there, because they know they can find guys like this on the cheap. It keeps money available for other needs. But the same strategy wouldn&#8217;t work in most other parks, so when someone asks me if I like Heath Bell or if Chris Young is a #2 starter, I&#8217;m going to say no, because those are abstract questions that deserve an answer that goes beyond the players&#8217; current environment.</p>
<p>Anyway, that&#8217;s much more than I intended to write when I sat down, but those are my thoughts. As I said above, a lot of this is subjective, and I don&#8217;t mind the disagreements. But give the bias nonsense a rest.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76964">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: LynchMob</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-1#comment-76953</link>
		<dc:creator>LynchMob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-76953</guid>
		<description>41 ... ditto's on the thanks for stoppin' by ... it keeps us honest ... and it let's us know we matter in the same way that our posting of your comments should remind you that we think you matter!

re: 3B-man of the future ... do you think the same of the Brewer's Braun?  Kouz is "our guy" ... for now ... we don't want his defense to be as bad as it's seem'd at times ... and we prefer to ignore his amazingly bad start ... we're a franchise desparate for power, and he looks like he's got some and still developing ...

44 ... re: praise and criticism ... I think Keith's got it right in that what he writes will be based on his current philosophies ... if he sees those not working out over a long period of time, then he'll change those philosophies ... and then his praise's and criticism's will adjust accordingly.  Let's hope a few more years of Padres winning effects such a change :-)&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76953"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>41 &#8230; ditto&#8217;s on the thanks for stoppin&#8217; by &#8230; it keeps us honest &#8230; and it let&#8217;s us know we matter in the same way that our posting of your comments should remind you that we think you matter!</p>
<p>re: 3B-man of the future &#8230; do you think the same of the Brewer&#8217;s Braun?  Kouz is &#8220;our guy&#8221; &#8230; for now &#8230; we don&#8217;t want his defense to be as bad as it&#8217;s seem&#8217;d at times &#8230; and we prefer to ignore his amazingly bad start &#8230; we&#8217;re a franchise desparate for power, and he looks like he&#8217;s got some and still developing &#8230;</p>
<p>44 &#8230; re: praise and criticism &#8230; I think Keith&#8217;s got it right in that what he writes will be based on his current philosophies &#8230; if he sees those not working out over a long period of time, then he&#8217;ll change those philosophies &#8230; and then his praise&#8217;s and criticism&#8217;s will adjust accordingly.  Let&#8217;s hope a few more years of Padres winning effects such a change <img src='http://ducksnorts.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76953">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-1#comment-76951</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 23:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-76951</guid>
		<description>41: Keith,

If you happen to stop by again: "the moron comment" was from one post. The (mostly) fine folks here aren't knee-jerk defensive types about their team.&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76951"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>41: Keith,</p>
<p>If you happen to stop by again: &#8220;the moron comment&#8221; was from one post. The (mostly) fine folks here aren&#8217;t knee-jerk defensive types about their team.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76951">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan S.</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-1#comment-76950</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-76950</guid>
		<description>44: Nothing to do with the discussion , but I looked at  your comment on Bell's K-rates and I was thinking we would expect our pitchers to have higher K-rates on the road, because there is more incentive to get the ball in play at Petco given the park. A bit of research showed me to be clearly wrong. In fact both the Padres hitters and pitchers have higher K rates at Petco consistently over the last 3 years. Does that mean pitchers are misusing Petco, or that there is something that makes it easier to strike out pitchers there (heavy air improving the break on breaking pitches?)&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76950"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>44: Nothing to do with the discussion , but I looked at  your comment on Bell&#8217;s K-rates and I was thinking we would expect our pitchers to have higher K-rates on the road, because there is more incentive to get the ball in play at Petco given the park. A bit of research showed me to be clearly wrong. In fact both the Padres hitters and pitchers have higher K rates at Petco consistently over the last 3 years. Does that mean pitchers are misusing Petco, or that there is something that makes it easier to strike out pitchers there (heavy air improving the break on breaking pitches?)
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76950">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Young</title>
		<link>http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html/comment-page-1#comment-76948</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/08/friday-links-31-aug-07.html#comment-76948</guid>
		<description>#41: Thanks, Keith, for stopping by. I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Linebrink based on his actual home/road splits since the Padres moved to Petco Park in 2004. In light of available evidence, he doesn't strike me as someone who has benefited hugely from his home park. He's really more of a guy who appears to be in the decline phase of his career. Whether or not the Brewers allowed themselves to get "fooled" into a bad trade is anyone's guess.

#43: Brad Penny owns a horse? I had no idea. As for my wife's bet, let's just say she's buying dinner tonight. ;-)&lt;p class="top-comments"&gt;Current score: &lt;span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76948"&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#41: Thanks, Keith, for stopping by. I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Linebrink based on his actual home/road splits since the Padres moved to Petco Park in 2004. In light of available evidence, he doesn&#8217;t strike me as someone who has benefited hugely from his home park. He&#8217;s really more of a guy who appears to be in the decline phase of his career. Whether or not the Brewers allowed themselves to get &#8220;fooled&#8221; into a bad trade is anyone&#8217;s guess.</p>
<p>#43: Brad Penny owns a horse? I had no idea. As for my wife&#8217;s bet, let&#8217;s just say she&#8217;s buying dinner tonight. <img src='http://ducksnorts.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-76948">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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