Another City, Another Series Win
Mon, Jun 18, 2007
by Geoff Young
Good to see the boys wrap up the road trip with a couple of wins in Chicago. Even better to see Mike Cameron playing well again. Since May 1, he’s batting .288/.341/.532. That’s more like it.
The fight on Saturday? I’ll be honest; I hate that aspect of professional sports — nobody walks away from a brawl looking cool. At the same time, you can’t just sit there and take it.
I’m grateful that nobody got hurt. And I give huge kudos to Marcus Giles for taking down Chris Young, his own pitcher, before CY had a chance to land a punch and break his hand or some such. That potentially was a season-saving tackle.
Many factors come into play in any conflict. Placing all of the blame on a single person or event usually results in an oversimplification of reality. Plenty of folks played a significant role in this one:
- Alfonso Soriano. I may be old-fashioned, but I don’t understand the need to backpedal toward first base after hitting a home run. If I wanted to watch players taunt their opponents, I’d choose a different sport. I follow baseball for many reasons — a relative display of class is one of them. Soriano is going to get himself and/or his teammates hurt if he keeps up his act (which apparently he will). The Cubs may or may not want to hear this, but it’s the truth. If it were me, I’d want to focus more on helping my team win than on pissing off the guys in the other dugout, but what do I know?
- Jake Peavy. I love Jake’s fire and competitiveness. And I can’t disagree with his comments about Soriano. That said, maybe this is the sort of information you want to keep among teammates. Those could be (and evidently were) interpreted as fighting words.
- Chris Young. Wrong place, wrong time. That’s pretty much it. I like that Young, one of the most mild-mannered players I’ve ever seen, didn’t back down from a crazed Derrek Lee. People sometimes mistake easygoing for weak, and it’s nice to know that Young has it in him if needed. Now let’s go back to the part where he doesn’t need it.
- Derrek Lee. The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that Lee just got caught up in the heat of the moment and lost his cool. By all accounts, he’s a smart and respectable guy. He should be able to tell the difference between Peavy’s words and Young’s actions. He should understand that a guy showing no-hit stuff isn’t going to plunk someone in a tight game. Lee should know these things, and he probably does, but sometimes rational thought gives way to ancestral instincts. We forget that we are not cavemen.
The Cubs are a mess. Their manager is a known hothead; teammates can’t seem to get along with one another; and despite breaking the bank on free agents this past winter, the club is scuffling in MLB’s weakest division.
If you’ve ever worked in a bar, you know that people looking for trouble generally will find it. The Cubs were looking for trouble on Saturday, and, lo and behold, they found it. I’ll give them credit for not escalating the situation further on Sunday, especially when they ended up losing by eight runs. That would have been an excellent opportunity to take a cheap shot or two, and the Cubs didn’t do it.
The Padres, meanwhile, won another series. Now they get to come home.
by Peter Friberg
You will not see reports from the Eugene Emeralds or Arizona Padres, but that changes this week…
Friday, June 15, 2007
AAA
Clay Hensley: 5.0 IP, 7 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 2 BB, 5 SO, 1 HR - G2
Andrew Brown: 1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 3 SO, 0 HR - G2
AA
Will Venable: 5 AB, 0 R, 3 H, 1 RBI; 2 2B, SO
Sean Thompson: 5.1 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 5 BB, 2 SO, 0 HR - weird
High-A
Matt Antonelli: 4 AB, 3 R, 2 H, 2 RBI; 2B, BB
Kyle Blanks: 3 AB, 1 R, 2 H, 4 RBI; HR, 2 BB
Low-A
Kyler Burke: 2 AB, 1 R, 1 H, 0 RBI; BB - G1
Cedric Hunter: 3 AB, 2 R, 2 H, 1 RBI; 2B - G1
Kyler Burke: 3 AB, 1 R, 1 H, 0 RBI; 2B - G2
Commentary:
Hypothetically speaking, I do not think they would have called up David Freese to Double-A unless they were planning on keeping Chase Headley in the majors or, at worst, sending him back to Triple-A. David’s name was notably absent from both the Lake Elsinore and San Antonio box scores. (I still think two of Kevin Kouzmanoff, Headley, and/or Freese need to start taking fly balls in the outfield.)
Saturday, June 16, 2007
AAA
Paul McAnulty: 5 AB, 1 R, 2 H, 1 RBI; 2B, SO
Vince Sinisi: 5 AB, 0 R, 2 H, 1 RBI
AA
No notable performances
High-A
David Freese: 4 AB, 2 R, 3 H, 1 RBI; 2B, BB, SO - still in Hi-A
Kyle Blanks: 4 AB, 1 R, 2 H, 0 RBI; BB, SO
Chad Huffman: 3 AB, 0 R, 2 H, 2 RBI; 2B, BB, SO
Wade LeBlanc: 4.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 5 SO, 1 HR
Low-A
Cedric Hunter: 3 AB, 1 R, 2 H, 0 RBI - G2
Drew Miller: 3.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 4 SO, 0 HR - he’s back!
Ernesto Frieri: 1.2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 3 BB, 3 SO
Commentary:
It’s good to see Paul McAnulty doing well. If we need him later, we’re better off having him doing well if we need to call him up again later.
San Antonio is a lot less interesting without Chase.
Geoff and I have a lot of discussions about Chad Huffman. Geoff has noted that whenever he watches Lake Elsinore play, Huffman doesn’t do anything. So Geoff, how was Huffman Saturday night?
[Ed note: Huffman remains quietly effective. He still didn't stand out much on Saturday despite the two hits. The guy who continues to impress is Freese. His double was a blast to right-center; seems like he's driving balls out that way every time I see him. Freese also made a very nice play at third, diving to his left and scrambling to make a strong throw. I liked what I saw from LeBlanc as well. He has some filthy off-speed/breaking stuff and made just two bad pitches all night.]
We’ll have a short Q&A with Denis Savage of MadFriars.com up shortly. One question I asked him was what happened with Drew Miller. It’s good to see him back and doing well.
Before the draft I predicted that the 2011 starting rotation would like this:
SP1: Jake Peavy
SP2: Chris Young
SP3: Cesar Carrillo
SP4: Matt Latos
SP5: Wade LeBlanc
Now I would say that the following are candidates for the 2011 rotation: Peavy, Young, Clay Hensley, Justin Germano, Carrillo, Latos, LeBlanc, Manny Ayala, Drew Miller, and Nick Schmidt (there are actually a few others who might show themselves to be candidates this summer).
Sunday, June 17, 2007
AAA
Jared Wells: 0.2 IP, 2 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 3 BB, 0 SO, 0 HR
AA
Cesar Ramos: 6.1 IP, 9 H, 7 R, 6 ER, 1 BB, 1 SO, 2 HR
High-A
Kyle Blanks: 2 AB, 2 R, 2 H, 0 RBI; 2B, BB
Nic Crosta: 4 AB, 1 R, 3 H, 2 RBI; 2 2B
Manny Ayala: 6.2 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 6 SO, 0 HR
Low-A
Daryl Jones: 5 AB, 1 R, 3 H, 2 RBI; 2B, HR
Aaron Breit: 4.0 IP, 8 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 4 SO, 1 HR
Commentary:
Other than Ayala, it was not good day for pitching prospects.
Thanks, Peter. The Padres are off on Monday, then start a three-game set against the Baltimore Orioles at Petco Park on Tuesday. Peavy pitches in the opener. Should be fun…
Picking up where last year's version left off, the Ducksnorts 2008 Baseball Annual provides in-depth analysis of and commentary on the San Diego Padres. Get your copy today.
June 18, 2007 at 8:28 am
Any word on when suspensions will come down from on high?
June 18, 2007 at 8:59 am
If Derek Lee is the mild mannered sort, then I gotta think that all the tensions in the Cub dugout of late were building up in the guy and finally popped on Sat.
BTW, Padres, 12 games above 500, best in the NL. In the old days 12 games above 500 indicated a dominant team, but not anymore. Bos, coming to town this weekend, is 20 games above 500. Wow.
Baseball fights can be good for the clubhouse (injuries and suspensions aside). They define rolls and indicate leadership. Would bet dollars to donuts, the Padre clubhouse is tighter after the brawl.
June 18, 2007 at 9:01 am
I don’t have an issue with Peavy’s comments; however, I do have issues with him being the guy rushing into a crowd of Cubs and tackling Derrek Lee. He’s got to realize how valuable that he is to the future of this team and take care of his body. Does he not remember the Robert Fick incident? Let Russell Branyan or Doug Brocail jump into the middle of the fray–Jake’s got to be above it.
June 18, 2007 at 9:11 am
Re 3: Agreed. I was watching the replay; he circled the entire fracas and went after Lee. Stupid.
I think “statement” games are over-rated, as though players really turn on and off their ability vs. being professionals, but I love coming out and bashing the Cubs in the next game. My ire about the fight was fueled by watching the games on WGN. I love Lee, yes he seems like a smart player, a good person and an exceptional player, but he came out of the Padres system. He could have a hobby of torturing spiders and I would still like him, just for being a former Padre. But…; the announcers rationalizing was focused on the ball being near his head, that a) you always have to protect yourself in that situation; b) Young was too much of a control pitcher to let one go. The latter statement does not hold up to the facts, but I found it ironic, as they were waxing on about this, Rich Hill missed up and in on AGon (not badly) but at the head and inside. Nothing intentional, just a curve that broke wrong. They did not notice the irony.
Even despite this, I am pulling for the Cubs to the win the Central. They are a much better team than their record and I think that will even itself out.
June 18, 2007 at 10:19 am
If you do a google image search for the word “save”, the 5th image to come up is of Trevor Hoffman.
http://images.google.com/image.....amp;q=save
June 18, 2007 at 11:31 am
3: Agreed about Peavy. He shouldn’t be the first to get in there. Where the heck was Silent L during all these?
I still am surprised at the ‘discussion’ that the home plate umpire was having with Bowen before the tantrum started. It seemed like they were really caught up in the argument and didn’t pay attention to the incident brewing.
What was CY supposed to do, not defend himself? I’ll be surprised if CY’s suspension is longer than Derrek Lee’s.
June 18, 2007 at 11:35 am
6: CY has to defend himself in that situation. It’s not like you can just stand there and get thumped.
I was reading in the paper yesterday that CY was ejected because he engaged in the fight. Which basically means that short of sitting there and getting pounded, he would have been ejected.
Now, I think this rule is crap, but I see room for exploitation. Let’s say it’s mid-September and the Dodgers and the Padres are jockeying for position. It’s the bottom of the 4th, and Brad Penny has a no-no going for the Dodgers. Rather than try to get a hit off Penny, we send Silent L on a mission. Have his watch three straight strikes go by and then rush the mound. Penny will necessarily defend himself. He gets ejected, Dodgers bullpen comes in, Padres win!
There ya go, I’ve just found a reason to have Silent L on the team.
June 18, 2007 at 11:55 am
re: 7 he may get player of the game honors for that.
June 18, 2007 at 12:00 pm
6: Silent L’s hair is too valuable a commodity to risk mussing in that fracas
June 18, 2007 at 12:03 pm
I would say send Branyan but I think penny would end up running away.
June 18, 2007 at 12:03 pm
9: Hah! I personally don’t think there would be much of a fracas because I think Brad Penny would eat him on the spot.
June 18, 2007 at 12:23 pm
7 … here’s what I think is the issue, Phantom … you posed this suposition: “It’s not like you can just stand there and get thumped” … I did not see CY “stand there” … I think the problem is that CY did NOT “stand there” … if he had just stayed on the mound, then we don’t have the fight … he walked over to Derrek Lee … the punches were thrown closer to the first-base line than the pitchers mound. CY has got to stay on the pitchers mound, or else he is “in the wrong”. Also, once Lee threw a punch, there’s a big difference between “stand there”, “defend yourself”, and “throw a return punch”. It’s true he can’t just “stand there”, AND it’s true that he can’t “throw a return punch”. He’s got to find the middle ground of “defend yourself” … ONLY. For leaving the mound and throwing a punch, he deserves a suspencion. He also didn’t have to say anything, and he clearly did … more reason for consequences …
June 18, 2007 at 12:26 pm
More noise about Dunn …
http://chicagosports.chicagotr.....-headlines
… WC @ BP says: sources are telling me that the Reds want to deal Adam Dunn “this month. Way before the All-Star break.”
June 18, 2007 at 12:37 pm
12: I agree, CY shoudn’t have left the mound. He may have been trying to communicate that it wasn’t intentional but no matter what he said his actions were going to be interpreted as inflammatory. However, look at D Lee’s punch in slow motion. He grabs CY’s jersey and drops his shouder like Mike Tyson going for a haymaker. This wasn’t some weak NBA slap fight, he was loading up for the KO. CY had two choices at that point: run or throw a punch back, there’s no other way to defend yourself in that situation. What’s he going to do, go for a jiu jitsu takedown and an armbar? Someone throws a punch at you, you throw back. Human nature.
I say 3 games for CY for instigating, 5 or 7 games for Lee because there’s no excuse for throwing the first punch. If there’s no rule against leaving the mound after a HBP there should be.
June 18, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Regarding the Freese/Headley/Kouzmanoff move to the OF, Kouz was shagging fly balls in RF during batting practice on Sunday afternoon. He was probably just shagging flies and staying loose, but it might be something to keep track of, especially if Giles’ bone bruise continues to sideline him.
June 18, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Re: (numerous posts about CY leaving the mound)…
I can read lips (compensation for bad ears)…
I saw CY say two things:
“take your base”
&
“I wasn’t throwing at…” - right before he ducked Lee’s first swing…
June 18, 2007 at 12:48 pm
July 2 is the first day to sign international player … and there’s some buzz over at madfriars.com that the Padres will have some “news” at that time … hmmm … I’m thinking the Padres didn’t spend their full $10M on draft day, perhaps?
June 18, 2007 at 12:53 pm
14 … agree that there should be a “pitcher can’t leave the mound after an HBP” rule … nice and simple …
re: “CY had two choices at that point: run or throw a punch back, there’s no other way to defend yourself in that situation” … nope, I don’t buy it. He ducked out of the way of Lee’s punch, ‘nuf said, celebrate that as a victory … at that point, he didn’t have walk away, he just needed to NOT step forward and NOT throw a return punch. I agree that that’s not “human nature”, but “consequences” are what change/improve such behavior. Wow, look at me, lecturing on consequences for bad behavior … to some extent, that’s a joke in and of itself … but that doesn’t make it wrong
June 18, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Will we hear “swing pitcher, pitcher, pitcher” the next time CY takes the mound?
June 18, 2007 at 1:08 pm
16: I can second that. CY was clearly trying to tell Lee that it was unintentional, in fact, he’s in the middle of saying so as Lee throws his punch.
I could be off on this, but I think pitchers typically remove their glove when their purpose is to instigate. CY’s glove was still on when Lee threw the punch.
18: Not just the “macho” definition, but even the legal definition of self-defense allows you to throw a punch when somebody swings at you. Short of running away, the more “defensive” moves would have been more inciteful because they would have CY putting Lee on the ground or in a hold.
June 18, 2007 at 1:12 pm
17: That is exciting news. A big international signing would be great after the Padres just missed out on Fernando Martinez a few years ago. Maybe we will spend 10M on amateurs-just not all on U.S. amateurs.
June 18, 2007 at 1:13 pm
maybe the acadamy in the DR is paying off.
June 18, 2007 at 1:19 pm
18. I disagree. The way I saw it: Lee was out of the basepath - and, though not clear from WGN’s main camera angle, on the grass in front of the pitcher’s mound, and CY was in a reasonable area for a pitcher to retrieve a ball from a catcher or umpire. It’s probably been said on this site, but clearly the homeplate umpire was out of position in not getting between these two.
June 18, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Up north yesterday, the more dominate in the field, the prominent in the stands red became. Sweet. Speaking of avoiding fights, wearing Storm gear works.
June 18, 2007 at 1:40 pm
23: That’s the other side of it. Lee was out of the basepath. That’s a rule in the book already, right?
June 18, 2007 at 1:47 pm
18: Are you kidding? Not throw a return punch after the other guy grab your jersey and throw a punch at your head? Not possible, LM. It’s called self-preservation, damn the consequence. The rule is stupid.
Let’s say that punch actually landed on CY. I don’t think Derrek Lee would have stopped at one hit, do you? Now CY got knocked out for a few starts, I don’t think you’ll be saying quite the same thing. Both players seemed to regret the incident.
June 18, 2007 at 1:57 pm
Quick question: What do the Padres plan on doing with Kyle Blanks defensively? Will he eventually move to the outfield?
June 18, 2007 at 2:09 pm
26 … “Not possible, LM” … we disagree … it certainly is possible … non-violence is the harder-narrower road … and it’s certainly possible …
If you walk into it … if you throw a punch … you deserve to be suspended … that describes both DLee and CYoung in this case … and that’s why they both seem to regret the incident …
23 … I’m not sure from the details you provided what you disagree with … Lee was out of the basepath … he swung a punch, he deserves to be suspended … and as the first punch-thrower, it does seem like he deserves a stiffer suspension … ah, perhaps it’s what you’re calling “reasonable area” … ya, if you think it’s reasonable for CY to have walked off the mound directly towards DLee and said something to him, then I do see what we disagree about.
20 … “legal definition of self-defense” … don’t know about that … if so, OK … but I think there’s a better way … and I’ll bet the expectation of MLB on it’s players is not written to align itself with this “legal definition of self-defense” …
Hmmm, I’ll see if I can stay on this “high horse” … I do think it’s all just “macho agressive” … there’s a time & place for “macho” … but when it gets agressive, even if/when defensive, well, that’s not good …
June 18, 2007 at 2:22 pm
28: I of course bear you no ill will, but speaking hypothetically, if I reared back and punched you in the face you’re saying you wouldn’t punch back?
I know Derek Lee didn’t connect but in my book it makes no difference.
June 18, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Lee 5 games
Perry Hitting Coach for cubs 3 Games
Young 5 Games
Peavy Fine
Giles Fine
June 18, 2007 at 2:28 pm
last post was just reported on XX
June 18, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Why the heck was Giles fined? He was in there to stop the fight. Damn.
In other news: Team USA baseball is announced already. Cool.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/college/?p=199
June 18, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Why in the hell did Giles get fined? He did more than anyone else on the field to diffuse that conflict.
I don’t agree with Young getting five games. I also don’t agree with Perry getting only 3 games considering he’s a coach that assaulted a player.
Glad that Jake only got fined. Marcus getting fined is just ludicrous.
June 18, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Seems lame that they should get the same suspension, but as suspension to a position player for five games is worse than a pitcher (pushes back a single start?). Lee instigated, CY was in a place where he retrieves balls from a catcher/ump. It is telling that the ump was not trying to separate the two, to him the most interesting thing was not whether it was intentional (clearly if he thought so he would have been out there) but whether it was really a HBP or not. So Lee instigated this, and yes, CY retaliated when he could have avoided doing so, but equal suspensions seems off.
June 18, 2007 at 2:38 pm
That is absolutely BS that Young got the same as Lee. There’s no penalty for throwing the first punch?
June 18, 2007 at 2:39 pm
34: I’m hoping that CY appeals and gets his suspension reduced to 3 games.
Oh, and the club needs to pay Marcus’ fine for him. He prevented severl potential injuries with his actions during the fracas.
June 18, 2007 at 2:39 pm
29 … I’m saying I’d hope I wouldn’t … I hit a kid a long time ago (when I too, was a kid) … and I still remember it … with regret. Read some of this … http://www.cnvc.org/ … and tell me it doesn’t describe a better way … I think it’s a stretch to apply it to MLB … I think in MLB it’s FAR, FAR easier to be non-violent than, say, the middle-east … or even downtown San Diego on a bad night. I think the key is to have high expectations … and meaningful consequences when those expecatations aren’t met. And that’s what I’m seeing in the suspensions handed down in this case. 5 games for DLee is pretty steep … 5 games for CYoung is an extra day of rest …
June 18, 2007 at 2:39 pm
OG not NOG
June 18, 2007 at 2:40 pm
I really have reservations saying that CY should have walked away after Lee threw a punch at him. Yeah in a perfect world the whole fight thing never would have happened but when somebody takes a swing at you how the hell could you look your teammates in the face again if you turn around and run away from it. I doubt you could find a guy in the leauge that wouldn’t have done the same thing. You can’t expect CY to be in the competitive zone that pitchers get into one second and then snap out of it and not react to a guy trying to cave his face in the next second.
June 18, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Re: 35 CY did not get the same as Lee, 5 games for a starter = 1 Game for position player
June 18, 2007 at 2:41 pm
27 … KG @ BP said this today …
Kyle Blanks is listed at 6-foot-6 and 281 pounds, but was well over 300 pounds at times last year, not that the Padres were happy about it. Interestingly enough, when Blanks is actually in shape (which he is this year), he’s an incredible athlete for his frame, and even an average baserunner once he gets going (which admittedly takes a while). Blanks hit his 13th home run of the year on Friday, and added two-hit games on Saturday and Sunday, upping his season averages to .335/.405/.604 in 61 games. Yes, it’s the Southern half of the California League, but Blanks is nonetheless a skilled hitter with a decent approach, and plenty of power. Two years ago, before Blanks made his full-season debut, one team official dreamt on Blanks as a possible Dave Parker. He’ll probably never play the outfield, and it’s highly doubtful that he’ll amass 2700+ hits (as the Cobra did), but after taking a hit on his prospect stock last year, he’s rebounded and improved upon it.
June 18, 2007 at 2:47 pm
GY … now the web software thinks I’m TW? (ie. it seems to have eaten one of my posts
)
39 … re: “turn around and run away from it” … no one is saying he had to turn & run … but for starters he needed to not engage (ie. walk towards DLee and say something to him) … but … assuming we’re talking about a scenario where DLee went totally out of his way (ie. to the mound) and swung a punch … what should be the expectation? DEFEND … which he did … he didn’t take the punch … and he didn’t need to throw a counter … he could have stood his ground … that seems “manly” to me … that seems “macho” to me. Neither punching back nor running seems best.
Same in “real life” too, perhaps? The concept of “turn the other cheek” is FAR, FAR different from “turn and run”, doncha think?
June 18, 2007 at 2:50 pm
28: I would argue that the drift in from the mound to get a ball - and where the conversation was coalescing - is a natural movement for a pitcher. Sure, he could’ve turned his back and walked the other direction. My disagreement was the impression you create that CY instigated the fight. No way. In any case, as someone said, we’re lucky he didn’t break his hand.
Gerald Perry: remember the Padres 1984 beanball game vs. the Bravos? I seem to recall Perry playing a big role in that fight.
June 18, 2007 at 2:51 pm
To echo 37, the Giles brother that was fined was Brian because he is on DL.
June 18, 2007 at 3:01 pm
42: We don’t know what the conversation was, do we? It’s nice that you can try to ‘make nice’ after the fact. That’s not reality. Stressful situation, danger coming at you, instinctively, defend and swing back. The concept of ‘turn the other cheek’ doesn’t mean evade punch and see if the puncher will throw another one. That’s silly. Would you have felt the same if CY had pushed Derrek Lee down after Lee missed his punch?
38: LOL. OG gets fined for hobbling too slowly to get there to defend a teammate.
June 18, 2007 at 3:03 pm
44: I didn’t even notice that OG was on the field. So, if you’re on the DL, I take it you’re prohibited from being on the field? Is that why he got the suspension?
June 18, 2007 at 3:05 pm
OT … HR’s #17 + 18 + 19 for Rick Ankiel … http://web.minorleaguebaseball.....mp;t=g_box … way cool!
43 … “impression you create that CY instigated the fight” … ya, I’ve been trying to avoid doing that … to some extent, the HBP instigated the fight … to a very large extent, DLee actions instigated the fight … to some extent, CY walking towards him and talking to him instigated the fight … so “no way” seems like an overstatement to me … he did not “drift to get a ball” … what I saw was that he was engaging with DLee … if he walks up to the Bowen/Ump to get a ball, we’re not having this conversation …
June 18, 2007 at 3:11 pm
LynchMob is absolutely right on all this. The reason CY gets a suspension is because instigates and then he fights back. He should not have said a word to D-Lee and he should had went to the mound. Its true it is human nature to punch back if someone swings at you, but that doesnt make you not responsible for doing so. You swing you get a suspension, whether you threw the first punch or not. CY could had ducked and then bear hugged Lee instead or anything besides punch him back. CY deserves to miss a start D-Lee deserves 4 or 5 games. Peavy and Giles both deserve a fine for getting too involved. Cubs coach deserves 4-5 games for conflicting with a player.
I am a Cubs fan when they arent playing the Padres, and Derek Lee has always been a class act just like CY. He definetly overreacted, but he doesnt need to be burned at the stake for this. Sports are competitive, these things happen even with the classiest guys.
June 18, 2007 at 3:16 pm
47: So, now you are saying that CY started the whole thing. Your argument went from CY shouldn’t have swung back to Cy started the whole thing. Which is it? And if you believe that CY started the whole incident, you were watching a different game.
Other news:
Padres’ prospect on first team,
http://www.baseballamerica.com.....64298.html.
June 18, 2007 at 3:16 pm
48 … perhaps “absolutely right on all this” is an overstatement
June 18, 2007 at 3:20 pm
48: Right, because bear-hugging him wouldn’t have netted a suspension or escalated the issue either.
As many people have pointed out, CY had few pragmatic options in this matter. None of us are professional baseball players and none of us recognize the honor and pride that goes along with that mantle. As somone said above, no way could CY have just walked away or avoided contact. Lee started chirping at CY first. CY gave the most un-agressive response possible by telling him to go to first.
You and LM are acting like CY stared down Lee and said, “Want some more, bitch?” He came off the mound to receive the ball. Lee started trotting up the line, stopped, came back down the line, and started chirping. You really want our starter to just turn around here? What’s to say Lee doesn’t rush him from behind? I suppose that’s fine and good since CY wouldn’t have “insitgated” then. But he probably would gotten injured instead.
I think it’s great to preach peace and understanding, but it’s completely off-base to condemn CY for his actions. He never called out Lee, he never stared him down. He went to retrieve the ball and offered very unoffensive responses to an enraged athelete. Put yourself in the situation before you start assigning blame.
Do you possibly think that your Cubs affiliation might be tainting your perspective a bit? I know that my being a Padres fan could affect me, but given that I’ve watched the situation several times and can see CY clearly say “go to first” and “I’m not throwing at you” before being swung at, I think it’s pretty clear where the fault for this situation lies. Also, it was 1-2 pitch in the 4th inning. There’s no way he’s trying to hit him there.
June 18, 2007 at 3:24 pm
52: ha that make me laugh just thinking about CY yelling “Want Some More Bitch!”
June 18, 2007 at 3:26 pm
49 … wow
If CY didn’t HBP DLee, no fight.
If CY didn’t walk towards and talk to DLee, no fight.
Is that which it is? That’s what I saw … and this … “to a very large extent, DLee actions instigated the fight” … they key word there being *AND* …
AND … if CY doesn’t throw a return punch, then perhaps he doesn’t get suspended … but, at this point, that’s a hypothetical … (ie. he’s not getting suspended for his part in instigating, and I’m sorry I got sucked into that discussion … it seems tangential at this point … he got suspended for the return punch, imo, and/or perhaps for what he said, which is probably when we went down the slippery-slope-of-no-return)
June 18, 2007 at 3:29 pm
53 … typo in last sentence … should say “when *he* went down the slippery-slope-of-no-return” …
June 18, 2007 at 3:36 pm
51: Now you are just putting words in my mouth. I never said CY threw at D-Lee. I never said if I was in that situation I wouldnt had thrown a punch back either, but if i did I would had known that i would be resposible for doing so and my actions would probably result in a suspension. I am not condemming him, I am just saying be responsible for your actions. I watched it serval times as well and just because you caught 2 things CY said doesnt mean you caught all of it. He should had ignored D-Lee’s chirping to begin with. He did walk towards him and say take your base, yes he could had had much worse things, but he had to know that saying ANYTHING would just escalate the situation.
June 18, 2007 at 3:36 pm
CY instigated it… Are you serious?
1. LM, Pitchers walk all around the mound after every pitch and what CY did was nothing abnormal. Lee came to CY and swung at him plain and simple.
2. The count was 2-2. Why would CY get 2 strikes on Lee and then decide to peg him on Lee’s 2nd AB of the game?
3. The umpire did not do his job and get between Lee and CY. If he does we are not talking about this today.
To be fair I think the real instigators are Jake Peavy and on a smaller scale Alfonso Soriano. Peavy should probably not have given them any bulletin board material and it’s pretty obvious that the Cubs hitters were on edge and looking for anything that could be thought of as retaliation. If Wells thought he got shown up by Soriano he could have done something about it friday. In my mind CY did nothing but defend himself. Peavy’s comments took away CY’s ability to throw a bad pitch. Does CY deserve to get suspended? Not in my mind he was defending himself. Should CY get suspended? Yes! If it’s in the rules that when you throw a punch you get suspended then he should be suspended and I agree with it even if I don’t really agree with the rule.
June 18, 2007 at 3:41 pm
56: “Should CY get suspended? Yes! If it’s in the rules that when you throw a punch you get suspended then he should be suspended and I agree with it even if I don’t really agree with the rule.”
Exactly, and I am sure CY knows this and if he is suspended he probably wont complain, he’s a smart kid he knows what he did gets him suspended, even if it is self defense, a punch is a punch.
June 18, 2007 at 3:50 pm
57: What I took issue with, in both your and LM’s posts, is that CY played a signifcant role in the events that occurred. Aside from throwing a fastball that got away from him, I really don’t see what legitimate options CY had. He certainly could have been more agressive, but I honestly can’t imagine a scenario where he was even more conciliatory and unagressive than he already was.
If it’s the rules that you get suspended for throwing a punch, then it’s the rules. Should there just be a blanket suspension for throwing punches? Of course not. The problem with ejections and suspensions is that they seem to be too objective. Unfortunately, not all punches are thrown the same and with the same intent.
Derek Lee clearly threw a punch to get his perceived revenge. CY threw his punch in self-defense.
If the rules stipulate that a punch is a suspension, then fine. But CY should not be suspended as many games as Derek Lee (whether or not he’s a pitcher, if this had been Adrian or Marcus we’d be furious with five days). Equal suspensions give the perception of equal fault, which is what is upsetting so much of us.
June 18, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Glass half dude says: I hope that when CY is forced to miss his start, Hensley gets the call and re-asserts himself as a bona fide option down the stretch.
June 18, 2007 at 4:00 pm
58: Well maybe not with Marcus haha
I really only think its equal suspensions to ensure the CY misses a start. If that happens just work it out so CY starts instead of Wells after the 5 games and work with the rotation. Our rotation hasnt been exactly the same all year anyway. Most likely CY will appeal and maybe they will bring it down to 3 games. I think your wrong, i think he could have been less agressive like not walking towards Lee or saying a word, but he could have been alot more aggressive as well. Saying CY played no role in the events makes no sense, D. Lee made the decision to punch someone so he is definitely more at fault, but CY did hit him, intentional or not, walked towards him and said take your base and threw punches. That says suspension, though be may not be at fault.
June 18, 2007 at 4:02 pm
59: We dont need to call someone up if CY just has to miss one start. Wells has missed a start before because we had an extra day with no game. I’d rather it work out like that than have Hensley come up for one start, he doesnt seem at all ready in AAA to me.
June 18, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Checking out what the Cubs fans have to say made me once again appreciate the great job Geoff & Ducksnorts do. Googled Cubs blog(&s) and couldn’t find anything about the suspensions or much about the fight.
June 18, 2007 at 4:07 pm
62: heres ESPN on the suspensions.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=2908417
June 18, 2007 at 4:14 pm
#61: No, he doesn’t, does he? And that is why I am glass half dude.
The frustrating part is that it genuinely looked like CY was checking on Lee’s well being. When an air of mistrust already exists, though, it’s easy to confuse that with making an aggressive move.
At any rate, the deed is done. I’m sure everyone feels bad about it and thank goodness nobody got hurt (and we don’t have to watch our guys try to defend Soriano for the rest of the season).
On another note, Corey Brock gives well-deserved kudos to Justin Hampson for the job he did picking up for CY:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....p;c_id=mlb
June 18, 2007 at 4:18 pm
64: I dunno if he was checking on Lee’s wellbeing. But maybe he was saying “Are you ok?” instead of “Take your base”
Both guys have admitted they regret it, so both players knew what happened was wrong.
On another note, we have the best record in the NL, so this weekend should be interesting because we face the best in the AL
June 18, 2007 at 4:22 pm
I love the pitching matchups this weekend
Dice K VS Young (if he appeals his suspension)
Wakefield Vs Maddux
Shulling Vs Peavy
June 18, 2007 at 4:23 pm
65: On that last note, at least we got some surprising love from MLB.com this morning. In their peek at the week, the featured match-up was our series against the BoSox, since it’s a potential WS preview.
June 18, 2007 at 4:23 pm
#65: We’re splitting hairs now. Asking if someone is okay = checking on well being in my book.
And yes, it is nice to have the best record in the NL.
June 18, 2007 at 4:28 pm
51, 52: I think my lasting impression will be the thought of mild-mannered CY asking “What so more, bitch?” I find it hilarious.
Props to LM for highlighting the violence, even if seemingly justified (it always is in the eyes of the perpetrator), has way too much place in our world, and trying to keep it out of baseball seems like a good thing. Maybe D Lee should have gotten more than CY, but thankfully no one is hurt, and the main “combatants” sound contrite.
Clearly the sight of blows tugs on emotions, and makes us want to protect our own, but I vote for channeling some of this thought and energy (and I am as guilty as anyone) about how to make this board even more intelligent and thoughtful.
As a way to think kindly of the Cubs, remember without them:
-There would have been the 3 game sweep in NLCS in 1984, no Garvey heroics
-We could not have gone 7-0 against them last year, just maybe the difference between us and post-season (a few games worse we lose to LA and PHL)
-I would never have gotten to hear a completely hammered Harry Carey slurring his way through a broadcast
-Our heartbreaks might feel more painful without reminders of another franchise’s struggles (Game 6 of the 2003 Marlins’ series is a pretty epic collapse)
Peace to the Padres, to the Cubs and, most of all, Ducksnorts
June 18, 2007 at 4:29 pm
68: Did he ask him if he was ok? I was joking, but maybe he did. if he did i didnt see it
June 18, 2007 at 4:29 pm
GY Maybe Hampson gets the start. He was a starter in the minors up until last year…averaging 6 innings per game.
June 18, 2007 at 4:31 pm
71: I wouldnt change his role, he’s been good where he is at. lets keep him there
June 18, 2007 at 4:34 pm
66: Shilling and Peav is gonna be fun to watch. I hope we beat the crap out of Schilling. If there is one guy in baseball that needs to learn to keep his mouth shut its Schilling. He think the world wants to hear what he has to say.
June 18, 2007 at 4:38 pm
53: Not all HBP leads to thrown punches. At the count of 1-2, no hit scoreless game, there is no reason for CY to hit Derrek Lee intentionally.
58: Agreed. Those are good points. Serve the suspensions, be done with it. Five games suspensions for a pitcher is not equal to same punishment for a position player.
64: Deserved kudos to Hampson. That’s the doubly frustrating part. The game was well pitched and defended, and the incident is taking away from that. Good win for the Padres. Nobody got hurt.
June 18, 2007 at 4:40 pm
#69: Well said, Jay. Thanks.
#71: Interesting idea. The nice thing is, we have some options if needed.
#73: Schilling’s blog makes for a pretty good read.
June 18, 2007 at 4:45 pm
73: I think the Knuckleballer vs. the Professor would be a good one too.
Don’t overlook Eric Bedard vs. David Wells on Thursday. That can be a great game. Of course, I hope the Padres hitters gets to that Orioles bullpen often and knock ‘em out.