Comments on: Notes from Peoria http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html Blogging the San Diego Padres baseball club. Established 1997. Fri, 09 Jan 2009 03:58:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Tom Waits http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36188 Tom Waits Tue, 27 Mar 2007 02:55:54 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36188 16: It was Brian Hunter, and he apparently there was a lot of other stuff going on that neither he nor the union wanted to make public. Drugs? Multiple wives? The problem is, we're going to be keeping players with worse performance. Walker's legal team, if he has one, will be able to point to literally hundreds of cases in which teams kept people who didn't hit well. They'll have dozens of examples just from the Padres of the last 10 years. The way I read the CBA, the player has to be either not trying or physically unable to play. And I haven't yet seen anything that says the contract wasn't guaranteed.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36188">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> 16:

It was Brian Hunter, and he apparently there was a lot of other stuff going on that neither he nor the union wanted to make public. Drugs? Multiple wives?

The problem is, we’re going to be keeping players with worse performance. Walker’s legal team, if he has one, will be able to point to literally hundreds of cases in which teams kept people who didn’t hit well. They’ll have dozens of examples just from the Padres of the last 10 years.

The way I read the CBA, the player has to be either not trying or physically unable to play. And I haven’t yet seen anything that says the contract wasn’t guaranteed.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: LaMar http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36181 LaMar Tue, 27 Mar 2007 01:26:54 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36181 #15: It seems I remember reading that there has only been one other time that a player who won at arbitration got released by the team. Unfortunately, I don't remember the details, but I don't think there was a huge fight with the Player's Union. I think the legal issue arises as to "why" the player was released. The Player's Union can argue that the player was released because he won his arbitration and the team released him in retaliation. The team's argument will be that he simply didn't perform well enough to justify his remaining on the team. Without the guaranteed salary, it's AJ Smith's adage, "Line 'em up 3 deep and let 'em play." In this case, Walker was "out-played." Given the fact that the Padres are still shelling out $1 million to Walker in total, I think the front office has the better argument, especially with the sympathy value when Towers lisps the argument, due to his missing tooth.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36181">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> #15: It seems I remember reading that there has only been one other time that a player who won at arbitration got released by the team. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the details, but I don’t think there was a huge fight with the Player’s Union.

I think the legal issue arises as to “why” the player was released. The Player’s Union can argue that the player was released because he won his arbitration and the team released him in retaliation. The team’s argument will be that he simply didn’t perform well enough to justify his remaining on the team. Without the guaranteed salary, it’s AJ Smith’s adage, “Line ‘em up 3 deep and let ‘em play.” In this case, Walker was “out-played.”

Given the fact that the Padres are still shelling out $1 million to Walker in total, I think the front office has the better argument, especially with the sympathy value when Towers lisps the argument, due to his missing tooth.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: Tom Waits http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36177 Tom Waits Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:32:31 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36177 12: I wouldn't expect sportswriters to know. What matters is what the Players Union thinks it can prove in relation to the CBA, and which argument the judging party finds valid. You can be sure that if a player the team liked was in the same situation - arbitration offered and accepted, doesn't matter who won - and then tried to quit during spring training to play for another major league franchise, the team would cover him in lawsuits. Maybe the Padre legal team thinks it can win this, or maybe they think Walker won't fight. If this was such an open-and-shut reading of the CBA, somebody else would have tried it before now.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36177">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> 12: I wouldn’t expect sportswriters to know. What matters is what the Players Union thinks it can prove in relation to the CBA, and which argument the judging party finds valid.

You can be sure that if a player the team liked was in the same situation - arbitration offered and accepted, doesn’t matter who won - and then tried to quit during spring training to play for another major league franchise, the team would cover him in lawsuits.

Maybe the Padre legal team thinks it can win this, or maybe they think Walker won’t fight. If this was such an open-and-shut reading of the CBA, somebody else would have tried it before now.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: lovespooh2 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36175 lovespooh2 Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:16:40 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36175 Geoff, the pictures are great! I forgot to list as #8 on my ST list: The Sausage Race! Classic. The fact that Cameron and Giles almost got run over by a giant sausage.. too funny!<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36175">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> Geoff, the pictures are great! I forgot to list as #8 on my ST list:
The Sausage Race! Classic. The fact that Cameron and Giles almost got run over by a giant sausage.. too funny!

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: lovespooh2 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36174 lovespooh2 Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:08:35 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36174 Peoria was great! Thanks for the fun evening at Dillons! My thots from ST are: 1. Greg Maddux in a Padre Uniform-Awesome 2. Seeing #22 Tony Gwynn on the scoreboard at Maryvale and watching him bat. 3. Finding out that the poor guy hit by the baseball WAS Kevin Towers! 4. "What did you boys do during spring break?" "We played catch with Brian Giles!"- The Hoffman boys 5. Traffic out of Arizona on 8 West sucks! 6. Your Book ROCKS! 7. Sunshine, green grass and baseball. It doesn't get any better.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36174">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> Peoria was great! Thanks for the fun evening at Dillons! My thots from ST are:
1. Greg Maddux in a Padre Uniform-Awesome
2. Seeing #22 Tony Gwynn on the scoreboard at Maryvale and watching him bat.
3. Finding out that the poor guy hit by the baseball WAS Kevin Towers!
4. “What did you boys do during spring break?” “We played catch with Brian Giles!”- The Hoffman boys
5. Traffic out of Arizona on 8 West sucks!
6. Your Book ROCKS!
7. Sunshine, green grass and baseball. It doesn’t get any better.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: rv http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36173 rv Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:02:46 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36173 I believe LaMar is exactly correct, and I've asked a boatload of sportswriters about this situation (most of whom didn't know). I'm not sure if it is the same as the releasing of NFL players, but I am sure that Walker's arbitration award is non-guaranteed to the extent that he can be released as is being done, and he's only owed the 1 million. It sure looks like he should have taken the contract that he was offered. His poor play this spring and the preponderance of lefty hitters on the club should justify his release. I'd let Mac heal up completely, and bring back right-handed hitter Craig Stansberry, who is versatile, fast and has some 3-A pop. It would also help the club's legal argument about lefty/righty needs. I seem to remember that Robles hits left; could be wrong. Anyway, nice analysis LaMar.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36173">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> I believe LaMar is exactly correct, and I’ve asked a boatload of sportswriters about this situation (most of whom didn’t know). I’m not sure if it is the same as the releasing of NFL players, but I am sure that Walker’s arbitration award is non-guaranteed to the extent that he can be released as is being done, and he’s only owed the 1 million. It sure looks like he should have taken the contract that he was offered. His poor play this spring and the preponderance of lefty hitters on the club should justify his release. I’d let Mac heal up completely, and bring back right-handed hitter Craig Stansberry, who is versatile, fast and has some 3-A pop. It would also help the club’s legal argument about lefty/righty needs. I seem to remember that Robles hits left; could be wrong. Anyway, nice analysis LaMar.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: Tom Waits http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36172 Tom Waits Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:42:03 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36172 10: I'm not sure that's the case. I believe the contract is guaranteed but the Padres hope they have a loophole, either for performance or because they hope to get a pro-owner judge/mediator. When the Padres offered arbitration, they agreed to accept the decision of an arbitrator. They don't like how things worked out. Tough. Next time don't offer binding arbitration.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36172">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> 10: I’m not sure that’s the case. I believe the contract is guaranteed but the Padres hope they have a loophole, either for performance or because they hope to get a pro-owner judge/mediator.

When the Padres offered arbitration, they agreed to accept the decision of an arbitrator. They don’t like how things worked out. Tough. Next time don’t offer binding arbitration.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: LaMar http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36171 LaMar Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:31:26 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36171 I can understand both sides of the Todd Walker deal. However, I think I've got to take the side of the front office when it all comes down. The Pads offered a guaranteed contract of $3.2 million before arbitration. If he goes to arbitration, Walker knows that contract, even if he wins, will not be guaranteed. It's a risk vs. benefit analysis that he, and presumably his brother, the agent, worked through before they opted for arbitration. Baseball players, if they agree on a contract, get guaranteed money. Without the guarantee, they can be treated as football players and cut, unceremoniously. I've got to think that some of the players are thinking that the guarantee is worth more than the extra he won at arbitration. (I'm reminded of SA's stance on the umpires when they announced they were resigning/striking: "Fine." Offer accepted.")<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36171">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> I can understand both sides of the Todd Walker deal. However, I think I’ve got to take the side of the front office when it all comes down. The Pads offered a guaranteed contract of $3.2 million before arbitration. If he goes to arbitration, Walker knows that contract, even if he wins, will not be guaranteed. It’s a risk vs. benefit analysis that he, and presumably his brother, the agent, worked through before they opted for arbitration.

Baseball players, if they agree on a contract, get guaranteed money. Without the guarantee, they can be treated as football players and cut, unceremoniously. I’ve got to think that some of the players are thinking that the guarantee is worth more than the extra he won at arbitration. (I’m reminded of SA’s stance on the umpires when they announced they were resigning/striking: “Fine.” Offer accepted.”)

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: Didi http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36170 Didi Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:10:33 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36170 P-Mac is hurt. I hope he makes the team with Todd Walker being released. Notes from padres.com: Pads and ends: It looks like McAnulty won't be back on the field until mid-week at the earliest. The outfielder hasn't appeared in a game since March 18 when he injured his right knee, the same knee he had surgery on during the offseason. He will be re-evaluated Monday.<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36170">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> P-Mac is hurt. I hope he makes the team with Todd Walker being released.

Notes from padres.com:
Pads and ends: It looks like McAnulty won’t be back on the field until mid-week at the earliest. The outfielder hasn’t appeared in a game since March 18 when he injured his right knee, the same knee he had surgery on during the offseason. He will be re-evaluated Monday.

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]> By: Marsh http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html/comment-page-1#comment-36168 Marsh Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:51:58 +0000 http://ducksnorts.com/blog/2007/03/notes-from-peoria.html#comment-36168 Yeah, the Walker thing is a bit distressing, particularly since we're sort-of up the creek if something happens to NOG. Still, from an optimistic perspective, this should provide more $ in the pocket for deadline deals...Let's just hope that the natives don't get too restless...<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-36168">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p> Yeah, the Walker thing is a bit distressing, particularly since we’re sort-of up the creek if something happens to NOG. Still, from an optimistic perspective, this should provide more $ in the pocket for deadline deals…Let’s just hope that the natives don’t get too restless…

Current score: 0 (to vote for this comment, please visit the site)

]]>