World Series IGD: Tigers @ Cardinals, Game 5
Fri, Oct 27, 2006
by Geoff Young
first pitch: 5:27 p.m., PT
television: FOX
matchup: Justin Verlander (17-9, 3.63 ERA) vs Jeff Weaver (8-14, 5.76 ERA)
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Oops, forgot they were playing tonight. Somehow these games aren’t as interesting when your team isn’t in ‘em.
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October 27, 2006 at 9:05 pm
NL domination! I wonder how the sportswriters will spin this one. The team that barely won their division and went into the playoffs limping on one foot ran over the best team in the AL.
I didn’t realize the Cards hadn’t won the WS for 24 years! Must have been some bad managerial choices. Maybe the Pads need to go out and get a power hitter like David Eckstein so they can win their first WS.
So do the Tigers fire Leyland? They have to at least “give him the opportunity to explore other options.” Losing to Jeff Weaver, error-filled baseball, pitching to Pujols. They definitely need to find someone with better in-game managerial skills.
I never thought I’d hear fans questioning Bochy’s use of his bullpen (previous thread). I thought that was his strength. We could always go after LaRussa. Even though he went to Wainwright (sp.) time and again, he’s famous for his bullpen idiosyncrasies. His moves vs. the Mets (see below) sure worked out well.
Score
J Hancock relieved R Flores. 5 3
J Reyes singled to right. 5 3
P Lo Duca singled to left, J Reyes to third. 5 3
C Beltran walked, P Lo Duca to second. 5 3
C Delgado hit a ground rule double to deep left center, J Reyes and P Lo Duca scored, C Beltran to third. 7 3
D Wright walked. 7 3
T Johnson relieved J Hancock. 7 3
S Green singled to left center, C Beltran scored, C Delgado to third, D Wright to second. 8 3
J Valentin doubled to deep left, C Delgado, D Wright and S Green scored. 11 3
E Chavez struck out swinging.
OK, I’m still bitter over Bochy leaving. Would have been nice to see him manage a team with payroll leeway and a core group of young players with bright futures rather than cheap add-ons. Oh, well. I’ll get over it when Alderson’s guy takes the Pads all the way and they win their first WS.
October 27, 2006 at 11:09 pm
Congrats to the Redbirds…well deserved after this October run they went on. Somehow the Pads loss at their hands is somewhat more palatable now that they have won.
BigKTFan…Bochy is overrated and I am not sad to see him go. I look forward to him bunting his #5 hitter when the Gigantes are down by a run or sending out smart vets like Steve Finley for critical AB’s down the stretch.
As to the rest of your post, sure little David won the MVP, but when you have a power hitter like Pujols down the line, it is easier for the little guys to wreck havoc. Oh yea, they also have 25 + HR guys in Edmonds, Rolen, and even the power of a guy like Duncan.
An observation, the Pads are actually built pretty similarly to the Redbirds, but we are missing that bopper in the line-up.
October 28, 2006 at 1:05 am
Re 1: Bochy’s bullpen management has long been one of his many weaknesses.
October 28, 2006 at 6:21 am
Re 3: Yeah, sure took Bochy and all his weaknesses a long time to find a new job and long-term contract.
Are your assumptions based on The Book, too, Richard? I read the Pads bullpen was pretty decent the past few years (despite their manager, of course). I also read the comments by Keith Law — writer and numbers puncher — about Bochy being the Pads biggest weakness. Then I read Law’s comments about how the Tigers were just too strong for the Cards, how all the numbers said so, and his prediction of Detroit in 5. Oops! Don’t worry, I won’t hold my breath waiting for an admission that punching numbers is a weakness.
October 28, 2006 at 7:56 am
I can’t even begin to tell you how disappointed I am that Prince Albert the Pompous has a ring. On the bright side, t I guess his head can’t get any bigger than it already is. As for the Tigers, considering that they won 71 games in 2005 and 43 in 2003, they’ve done quite well for themselves.
Richard: I’d be curious to hear more about your views on Bochy’s bullpen management. I’ve long considered that to be one of the few areas where he’s tactically strong.
BKTF: Keith Law is one of many (myself included) who picked the Tigers in 5 — they were the better team, and like the Padres and Mets, they lost in a short series. It happens. When Yadier Molina, Jeff Weaver, Jeff Suppan, and the entire Cardinals bullpen all get hot at the same time and play like superstars for a few games, that’s a lot for any team to overcome, especially when your defense is constantly shooting itself in the foot. The Cardinals executed consistently and got some tremendous performances from unlikely sources. The Tigers did pretty much the opposite.
October 28, 2006 at 8:17 am
Okay, I’m done mourning Bochy. The World Series is over (I haven’t figured out if I’m happy that the Cards won, since it means we lost to the WS Champions or upset that the team with the biggest ego won). It’s time to strike up the Hot Stove!
My current betting line has Iwamura at 3rd ($12 mill posting and 3 yr at 15 mill.) I still haven’t figured out left field, although I wouldn’t be surprised at Giles being moved over and Sledge and Johnson platooned in right. That leaves enough money for Zito, if, which is a big if, he takes a SD discount and shortened contract to move back home. (Having written that, it’s not going to happen, so I guess I’ll go with a run at Pettitte, instead.)
October 28, 2006 at 8:40 am
Worst Playoffs Ever!
Okay, not ever. But to me that kind sucked. Seemed like every team that won did so because the other team really blew it (with maybe the exception of A’s vs. Tigers). It would have been great to see a team win because they super kicked super ass and deserved to.
I thought I was okay with Bochy leaving until I watched the Giants press conference last night. I have a sick feeling in my stomach now. It’s like if you had some girlfriend that was a total bitch and you hated her, and then you found out she was cheating on you, you’d still be upset even though you didn’t even like her anymore.
October 28, 2006 at 10:21 am
Im not upset with Boch leaving but I am upset that he went to another NL west team.
As far as Zito in SD two words Scott Boras, if zito wanted to take a paycut he would not have hired Boras.
October 28, 2006 at 11:53 am
re: 4
Isn’t it possible that the Tigers were the better team — by far, because of how they played over 162 games. But the Cardinals upset them. What is your obsession with pointing out that writers, like all human beings, are sometimes wrong?
October 28, 2006 at 12:56 pm
I think Boch gets alot of credit for KT putting together a great bullpen, I mean how hard is it to mannage a bullpen of Cassidy (pre allstar break) Linebrink, Meredeth, and Hoffy this year and Hensley, Linkbrink, Aki, Hoffy last year. When you have three guys that could all be closers for 50% of the other teams out there setting up the best closer in MLB history i dont think you have to do much.
Give Boch the Cardnals bullpen minus
October 28, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Give Boch the Cardnals bullpen minus Isringhausen and see how far he gets.
October 28, 2006 at 12:58 pm
First order of Hot Stove business is determining how long until 2007 starts …
According to this … http://www.springtrainingonlin....._dates.htm … it’s still TDB when the Padres pitchers & catchers report …
October 28, 2006 at 12:59 pm
According to this … http://www.springtrainingonlin.....cactus.htm … Padres spring opener is March 2, 2007 … which is 124 days from now
October 28, 2006 at 1:00 pm
GY … here’s a link to a counter counting down the days/hours/minutes/seconds until the Padres first spring training game … http://www.timeanddate.com/cou.....amp;p0=197 … seems like that’d be a fun link to have here at ducksnorts.com!
October 28, 2006 at 1:02 pm
According to mlb.com, the tentative 2007 schedule has the Padres opening at San Francisco … on April 3rd … which is 156 days … according to http://www.timeanddate.com/cou.....amp;p0=224
October 28, 2006 at 1:03 pm
According to mlb.com, the tentative 2007 schedule has the Padres home opener on April 6th vs Rox … which is 159 days … according to http://www.timeanddate.com/cou.....amp;p0=224
Onward!
October 28, 2006 at 1:08 pm
Joe Niekro, former Padre, has passed away … http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns
October 28, 2006 at 1:36 pm
re: He also died.
October 28, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Were the Cardinals lucky? Yes.
Are the Cardinals the worst team to ever win a World Series? Yes.
And … there’s more to it than just luck & stats … a good look at things by Nate Silver … http://www.baseballprospectus......cleid=5666 … a free-for-all article @ BP today …
October 28, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Re 5: Bochy’s slotting of his relievers into specific innings is a tactical weakness. Also, the fact that he refuses to go to his bullpen with a starter on the mound and the pitcher’s spot coming up the next inning is a weakness. His insisting on double-switching is also a weakness that involves the bullpen.
October 28, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Re 19: Thanks for the link (haven’t been reading BP since the season ended). Nate’s always good for some quality analysis.
October 28, 2006 at 3:15 pm
Thanks, Richard. A few follow-up questions:
1. Some people wouldn’t consider slotting of relievers a tactical weakness. I’m kind of undecided, but I suspect that it depends on the personnel involved. What are your reasons for citing this as a tactical weakness?
2. I haven’t noticed his tendency to refuse to go to the bullpen with the pitcher’s spot coming up; does he do this moreso than other managers?
3. The double switch seems to be a fairly common tactic, but I haven’t studied how frequently various managers employ it or in which situations. Do you know if he uses the double switch more than other NL managers?
October 28, 2006 at 7:52 pm
re: 22
The slotting of relievers into 7th-, 8th- or 9th-inning roles is a weakness, even though everyone is doing it. It means you have decided before the game what is best for that particular game. It’s push-button managing at its worst.
What if matchups, etc. dictate that Hoffman should pitch two innings one night, or Meredith should close the game, or Linebrink shouldn’t pitch at all. The fact that Bochy almost always used his closer in one-inning saves and not in tie games is a weakness.
I’m sure there are other examples I’m forgetting, but the way Bochy and many managers use bullpens today is akin to saying Josh Bard will pinch-hit only for Mike Piazza and no one else. Everyone would say that would be poor use of him.
October 28, 2006 at 9:48 pm
Thanks, Kevin. Two further questions:
1. Can you think of anything positive that might result from assigning players defined roles? Could it help in their ability to prepare and thus maximize their effectiveness in a particular situation?
2. This one’s a little philosophical, but if everyone is slotting their relievers in this way, is it truly a weakness of Bochy? That is, are his tactics inferior to those of other managers if the vast majority use their bullpens in the same manner?
October 29, 2006 at 1:23 am
1. It’s possible that the guys are more comfortable knowing their role, but I’m not aware of ay studies on the subject. Being able to leverage your best arms would seem to be more valuable than having your relievers know what inning they are slotted to pitch.
2. If everyone is doing it, then it’s a weakness of the current crop of managers in the league. And Bochy’s a member of that group. I think we can still classify it as a weakness because you could bring in someone else who wouldn’t make the same mistake.
October 29, 2006 at 12:43 pm
1. Yes, the DH.