I’ll Drive Myself Home, Thanks

The other day I was looking at Mike Piazza’s batting line and noticed something weird. Dude has 18 homers this year, but only 28 runs scored. Granted, if he gets on base late in the game and the Padres are leading, Rob Bowen will run for him (which explains his 20 runs scored despite all of 92 plate appearances this season), but still.

So I got to wondering how Piazza’s run totals compared with those of some other guys. The first question I wanted to answer is, “Who scores the greatest percentage of runs as a result of his own hitting?” This is pretty straightforward. I just made a list of everyone who has 300 or more plate appearances and divided home runs by runs. The results are hardly surprising:

If It Wasn’t for Home Runs, I Wouldn’t Have Any Runs
Player PA R HR BA OBP SLG HR/R
Mike Piazza 340 28 18 0.277 0.338 0.502 0.643
Ryan Howard 527 73 43 0.293 0.383 0.617 0.589
Richie Sexson 502 52 26 0.233 0.305 0.457 0.500
Lance Berkman 485 70 34 0.313 0.416 0.617 0.486
Ken Griffey Jr. 417 52 25 0.250 0.309 0.487 0.481
David Ortiz 560 93 44 0.287 0.400 0.627 0.473
Frank Thomas 412 55 26 0.265 0.386 0.518 0.473
Jeromy Burnitz 318 34 16 0.229 0.289 0.435 0.471
Josh Willingham 417 39 18 0.268 0.343 0.478 0.462
Damon Hollins 307 31 14 0.228 0.274 0.426 0.452
Stats are courtesy of David Pinto’s Day By Day Database and are through games of August 21, 2006.

Piazza and Willingham are catchers; Howard, Sexson, Ortiz, and Thomas are gigantic, lumbering 1B/DH types; Berkman and Griffey have battled leg problems this year; and Burnitz and Hollins don’t get on base. Probably the most shocking result here is that those last two guys have managed to amass 300 plate appearances.

At the opposite end of the spectrum are a bunch of slap hitters, most of whom get on base at a decent clip:

Has Anyone Seen My Banjo?
Player PA R HR BA OBP SLG HR/R
Joey Gathright 331 46 0 0.222 0.323 0.268 0.000
Nick Punto 345 54 0 0.316 0.400 0.418 0.000
David Eckstein 525 65 1 0.289 0.349 0.329 0.015
Willy Taveras 451 65 1 0.276 0.326 0.333 0.015
Juan Pierre 565 62 1 0.287 0.331 0.389 0.016
Jason Kendall 457 52 1 0.287 0.359 0.337 0.019
Cory Sullivan 364 42 1 0.280 0.327 0.417 0.024
Dave Roberts 417 60 2 0.306 0.376 0.412 0.033
Kenny Lofton 383 59 2 0.318 0.373 0.418 0.034
Aaron Hill 456 53 2 0.291 0.344 0.373 0.038
Stats are courtesy of David Pinto’s Day By Day Database and are through games of August 21, 2006.

If you ever need evidence that speed kills, look no further than Gathright. He’s the new Omar Moreno. The only thing that kind of speed kills is a rally. At the other end, Kendall’s presence on this list baffles me. Catchers aren’t supposed to be here.

Among qualifying Padres, Dave Roberts relies most on his teammates to drive him in:

Player PA R HR BA OBP SLG HR/R
Dave Roberts (8) 369 60 2 0.306 0.376 0.412 0.033
Brian Giles (68) 552 64 10 0.274 0.386 0.397 0.156
Joshua Barfield (79) 460 56 10 0.277 0.315 0.415 0.179
Mike Cameron (144) 483 68 18 0.266 0.348 0.485 0.265
Khalil Greene (161) 456 52 15 0.247 0.320 0.430 0.288
Adrian Gonzalez (176) 488 62 20 0.293 0.344 0.497 0.323
Mike Piazza (239) 340 28 18 0.277 0.338 0.502 0.643
Stats are courtesy of David Pinto’s Day By Day Database and are through games of August 21, 2006. Rank out of 239 qualifying players is given in parentheses.

You Mentioned a Second Question?

Yes, and it’s a bit more hypothetical: “If nobody ever hit a home run, who would score the fewest runs.” I know it’s kind of an absurd thing to ask (and never mind the fact that we’d have to take away runs resulting from other players’ homers as well), but bear with me.

The formula is simple: (R-HR)/PA*500. We’re finding the number of runs each player scores independently of his own homers and then expressing that as a total per 500 plate appearances so everyone is on the same footing.

They’ll Need a Crane
Player PA R HR BA OBP SLG (R-HR)/PA*500
Mike Piazza 340 28 18 0.277 0.338 0.502 14.71
Yadier Molina 360 21 5 0.217 0.272 0.331 22.22
Josh Willingham 417 39 18 0.268 0.343 0.478 25.18
Brian Schneider 354 22 4 0.241 0.311 0.317 25.42
Richie Sexson 502 52 26 0.233 0.305 0.457 25.90
Damon Hollins 307 31 14 0.228 0.274 0.426 27.69
Ben Molina 355 33 13 0.281 0.315 0.445 28.17
Jeromy Burnitz 318 34 16 0.229 0.289 0.435 28.30
Ryan Howard 527 73 43 0.293 0.383 0.617 28.46
Travis Lee 361 32 10 0.216 0.302 0.356 30.47
Stats are courtesy of David Pinto’s Day By Day Database and are through games of August 21, 2006.

No real surprises here either. More catchers and large first basemen. This table confirms two things:

  1. The Pirates (Burnitz) and Devil Rays (Hollins) really stink.
  2. If you are a catcher and can’t hit, you still have a chance, especially if your last name is Molina.

And on the flip side:

Show Me the Plate
Player PA R HR BA OBP SLG (R-HR)/PA*500
Reed Johnson 392 74 11 0.324 0.398 0.510 80.36
Rickie Weeks 411 73 8 0.279 0.363 0.404 79.08
Nick Punto 345 54 0 0.316 0.400 0.418 78.26
Scott Podsednik 478 77 3 0.261 0.333 0.369 77.41
Jose Reyes 545 98 14 0.293 0.349 0.482 77.06
Hanley Ramirez 523 90 11 0.270 0.338 0.424 75.53
Kenny Lofton 383 59 2 0.318 0.373 0.418 74.41
Chase Utley 563 103 22 0.320 0.385 0.533 71.94
Jimmy Rollins 570 100 19 0.280 0.342 0.472 71.05
Willy Taveras 451 65 1 0.276 0.326 0.333 70.95
Stats are courtesy of David Pinto’s Day By Day Database and are through games of August 21, 2006.

This is an interesting mix of up-and-coming offensive dynamos (Weeks, Reyes, Ramirez, Utley), established veterans (Lofton, Rollins), guys having a career year (Johnson, Punto), and guys whose mediocrity is largely obscured by a strong supporting cast (Podsednik, Taveras).

Here’s how the Padres do:

Player PA R HR BA OBP SLG (R-HR)/PA*500
Dave Roberts (16) 369 60 2 0.306 0.376 0.412 69.54
Mike Cameron (102) 483 68 18 0.266 0.348 0.485 51.76
Joshua Barfield (114) 460 56 10 0.277 0.315 0.415 50.00
Brian Giles (126) 552 64 10 0.274 0.386 0.397 48.91
Adrian Gonzalez (176) 488 62 20 0.293 0.344 0.497 43.03
Khalil Greene (194) 456 52 15 0.247 0.320 0.430 40.57
Mike Piazza (239) 340 28 18 0.277 0.338 0.502 14.71
Stats are courtesy of David Pinto’s Day By Day Database and are through games of August 21, 2006. Rank out of 239 qualifying players is given in parentheses.

Again, Roberts leans most heavily on his teammates, while Piazza is extremely self-reliant.

Other questions we might ask are how Piazza’s numbers this year rank historically — both by season and for a career; and maybe also what are some shared characteristics of hitters who are (or are not) driven in by others — physical size, foot speed, ability to get on base, who bats around them in the lineup, overall success of team, etc.? I’m not sure what we would learn from answering those types of questions, but the exercise might point us in interesting directions.

45 Comments

  1. Coronado Mike
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    If Mike Piazza homers and no fans are there to see it, is it still a HR?

    Trying to post at 5:30am is not a good thing, but I do have one question…Why is it all the numbers say we have one of the top 3 bullpens in the NL, but we were all so nervous last night? I have no fingernails and clearly Mark O. has wear marks in his carpet from not being able to move out of fear that it would throw Linebrink and Hoffy off their game.

  2. Clayton
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    I think that comes with the territory if you’re going to hang your hat on a bullpen. Even the best ones are a swing away from giving up a lead at all times.

  3. Nick G.
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    Great stuff, GY. That’s why you’re the man.

    I agree Clayton. Even the best bullpens give you ajada (sp?). I think it’s part of the equation. Bottom line is, if the guys hold the lead, they’re doing the job.

    No matter how scary it is.

  4. Nick G.
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    By the way,

    I will take Jake Peavy in a big spot over just about any other pitcher in baseball.

  5. Clayton
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    No arguments here…though I’m hoping his postgame comments aren’t getting the Dodgers all riled up. We need them to stay peacefully asleep…

  6. The Fathers
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    The Padres’ bullpen is allowing a .303 OBP, 2nd best in baseball, and very impressive. That still means that on average, they will allow at least one baserunner per inning. So yes, there will always be some amount of nervous time with Linebrink and Hoffman on the mound, even though Hoffman has a great WHIP, the most saves and the best ERA of NL closers. Much less so right now with Cla Meredith, who is showing no mercy to RHB.

  7. Nick G.
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    What did Peavy say?

  8. Clayton
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    From the AP article:

    “We came in here today and showed the first-place team that we’re not scared and that we can play with anybody,” said Peavy, who held Los Angeles to three hits in seven dominating innings.

    “It’s winning close ballgames like this and pitching just enough. That’s how we got there last year and it’s how we’re going to do what we need to do this year.”

    Now, that’s not calling Nomar “Mr. Hamm” or anything, but if I were a Dodger I would react like “oh yeah? we’ll see about that…”

  9. Coronado Mike
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Hey guys/gals…there is a neat little project going on here:

    http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/

    “There is an enormous amount of untapped knowledge here. There are 70 million fans at MLB parks every year, and a whole lot more watching the games on television. When I was a teenager, I had no problem picking out Tim Wallach as a great fielding 3B, a few years before MLB coaches did so. And, judging by the quantity of non-stop standing ovations Wallach received, I wasn’t the only one in Montreal whose eyes did not deceive him. Rondel White, Marquis Grissom, Larry Walker, Andre Dawson, Hubie Brooks, Ellis Valentine. We don’t need stats to tell us which of these does not belong. ”

    Nice for some Pads fans to rate their team…as honestly as possible. No, I have no connection to that site.

  10. Posted August 23, 2006 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Changing subjects a bit, I was reading Rosenthal’s article this AM and he was discussing the Shawn Green trade…

    Ken Rosenthal sad that the NY Mets acquired Shawn Green because Cliff Floyd is on the DL and his return status is up in the air. More importantly, Rosenthal wrote that, “The addition of Green likely means that the Mets will not re-sign Floyd as a free agent…”

    I was thinking of Floyd as a LF idea for next year, but then I looked at the numbers:

    2002: 146 games – .288/.388/.533
    2003: 108 games – .290/.376/.518
    2004: 113 games – .260/.352/.462
    2005: 150 games – .273/.358/.505
    2006: 80 games – .245/.330/.416

    Uh, no thanks…

  11. Steve
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Peter

    If the padres don’t have Roberts in LF next year then I would hope it would be a significant upgrade such as Lee or Soriano, but KT has indicated if its not Roberts it will be Johnson.

    I really think that the pads are going to have a $50 mil payroll next year. They have already come out and siad that they will not go after any big names in the off season and with Klesko’s, Park’s, and Woodies contracts all expiering I dont see where they are going to add payroll.

  12. Posted August 23, 2006 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    CM: Tangotiger has been running that scouting project for several years now — it’s pretty cool, although I’ve never participated due to lack of qualification.

    PF: Good call. Floyd = Klesko.

  13. Steve
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    Peter going back to your post yesterday – “the bigger discussion is how do we improve a team that seriously needs hitting help, when 1B, 2B, SS, CF, & RF are already locked up? ”

    This worries me as well, the padres have kind of decided to go with a lot of mid-level hitters with no great hitters to hold down the lineup. Cameron, Giles, and Roberts are all good roll type hitters but they really need one huge bat to make it all come together, A-gon may develop into a nice bat but I don’t think it will be next year, Piazza was that bat 7 years ago and he has had a nice year but not a great one.

    I would really like to see the Padres go after Cliff Lee this off-season, I’m not sure who will leadoff but Cameron did well in that spot earlier this season and Barfield could develop into a nice leadoff man as well. I would also love it if Roberts would stay on as a 4th OF.

    I dont think the padres can trade Greene who else could the padres get that offers the same D and produces more at the plate, SS is not a position that im willing to sacrafice D for plate production.

  14. Dave
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Speaking of guys that HR a lot but don’t score much, check out Andre Dawson 1987. He hit 49 HRs (and won the MVP), but only scored 90 times!

    I guess when you don’t get on base, and your team stinks (although the offense wasn’t that bad), that will happen.

  15. Clayton
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    Why not keep Roberts and trade Giles? Some team will bite on the prospect of a rejuvenated Giles at a decent price getting out of Petco (I know, home/road splits this year don’t suggest it’s a park thing, but his mechanical issue could be stemming from Petco being in his head), especially if we pick up a mil or 2 of salary in the deal (and I think we have the payroll flexibility to do that). Then, plug Johnson in in RF and go after a big-bat 3B.

    Roberts disruption to other team’s D and pitching by getting on and stealing and causing havoc is something I would hate to lose more than Giles’ streakiness.

  16. Posted August 23, 2006 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Well put Steve… I think Barfield & Adrian will improve, which should help our numbers. And in theory, Greene is having a bad year. So I could see him doing better as well.

    Here are the numbers from a regulars:

    Roberts – .306/.376/.412
    Giles – .272/.383/.394
    Cameron – .264/.347/.481
    Piazza – .277/.338/.500
    Gonzales – .296/.346/.498
    Walker – .281/.362/.401
    Greene – .247/.320/.430
    Barfield – .277/.315/.416

    We’re unlikely to get as much out the catcher position as we have this year. Barfield & Gonzo should trend upwards. Greene is a huge unknown. Cameron’s numbers should be fairly stable (though his counting stats may be higher if he’s healthy all season – remember he wasn’t healthy until June). Giles is an unknown, his numbers could go up a bit, down a bit, or be a repeat of ‘06 (how’s that for a prediction?). The two biggest questions, are what are we going to get out of 3B (and who’ll do it)? and What we get out of LF?

    Ben Johnson is unlikely to put up the BA or on-base numbers than Roberts is posting (but then, Roberts is probably unlikely to repeat this season), but Johnson should have much better power numbers (call it .270/.340/.460). Now on-base skills are more important than power numbers, and Johnson could exceed my projection pretty easily (he hit .312/.396/.558 in 415 AB…

  17. Posted August 23, 2006 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Clayton, b/c as bad as Giles’ power numbers are, his on-base skills are still integral to the Padres’ success.

  18. Steve
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Clayton, Giles is a nice 2 hole hitter and he has a no trade claws which i dont think he will waive.

  19. Clayton
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    He’s no longer getting on at a .400 clip, and you could argue it will slip further next year….I just hate the idea of losing a true leadoff guy b/c we’ve got 4 OFs and 3 spots.

  20. Clayton
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    would you rather have a true #2 guy or a true #1 guy? to me, the #2 guy isn’t as valuable if you don’t have someone getting on in front of him.

  21. Steve
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 11:03 am | Permalink

    Barfield or Cameron can fill that spot, don’t get me wrong I would love to keep Roberts and I think the padres should unless they can get Carlos Lee or Soriano. I would also rather have Roberts bat than Camerons bat but Cameron so good in CF it would be hard to loose him.

    I’m also in favor of trading Giles I just don’t think they could get him to waive his no trade and he becomes a 10-5 guy in the middle of next year.

  22. LynchMob
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    http://bree25.buzznet.com/video/popup/39016/

    This is the “funny video of the day that is making the email rounds” … I enjoy’d it …

  23. Ben B.
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    I am opposed in theory to the signing of a big name free agent, particularly Carlos Lee or Alfonso Soriano (in theory because if it actually happened I’m sure I would be cheering that we’re finally spending money). Both rely on power to be good players, with poor on base skills, and that power could take a hit in petco. Plus, signing them will take a long term contract that will tie up payroll for the future, after they’ve declined (like Klesko, Nevin, etc.).

    I think this is a career year for Roberts, so, while it would be nice to have him back cheaply, I think Ben Johnson can give the team most of the offense of Roberts next year and leave the team in better shape for the future.

    Batting Barfield or Cameron leadoff next year would be a mistake because both have low OBPs and Cameron’s more of a slugging type. If Giles continues to have a sub .440 slugging next year, he could be a good leadoff hitter.

    About the lack of a superstar: The Padres have a collection of slightly above average hitters that can play good defense. This is a fine approach, but it doesn’t work that well with a gaping hole at one of the positions. Any hope of finding a third baseman this offseason?

    That’s my $.02.

  24. Steve
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    Ben Re #23

    How does Soriano rely on power he’s hitting .292 (.364 OBP) with with 30 SB and 96 runs batting leadoff.

    Lee is hitting .295 (.350 obp) with 15 stolen bases.

    Both players would lead the padres with the following: HR, RBI, Runs, Hits and Total Bases. Soriano would also be 2nd to Roberts in SB.

    Also power is not a problem at petco as proven by visiting teams the problem is that Nevin, Kelsko and Giles have lost their power and instead of blaming age they blame the park.

  25. Anthony
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    $50 million might be a little low but I don’t think the payroll will be over $60 million next year. We won’t see any $10 million+ free agents.

    The only real hole is third and there aren’t any impact FA’s available there. Maybe we can swing a trade for Crede or Fields or someone but I’m not holding my breath on that either. My preference at third would be to find a really outstanding defender with a weaker bat rather than a mediocre defender with David Bell/Joe Randa level offense. Ideally of course we’d want a guy who’s a plus at both but that runs into money.

    I think we’ll see more of the same next year. Roberts will be gone, maybe some slightly better bench players and bullpen arms, a couple of low to mid level starters and maybe Blalock or Ensberg if we’re lucky. The front office will spin that the low payroll will give them more flexibility at the deadline to patch holes but we won’t see any big trades there either.

    That sounds pessimistic but I’m optimistic enough to think that will be competitive. I’d rather see a real impact bat like Lee or Soriano but we all know they’re bound for big market teams.

  26. Clayton
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    Reds lost to Houston…win tonight and 1G back in both division and wildcard…

  27. friarfan
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

    Steve – regarding Nevin and Klesko…you forgot to mention the juice (or lack thereof) as a reason for their decline.

    Anyone watching what these kids in AZ are doing. Man, that is one scary looking youth movement over there. They’re pounding Jason Schmidt this afternoon.

  28. Nick G.
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    I’m still all about Ensberg. I think the ‘Stros would be willing to deal him.

  29. Posted August 23, 2006 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

    Despite the organizational design (short left-field porch) Petco plays to hitters w/ left-field power. Both Soriano and Lee fit that profile.

    Lee, 30, might be worth a 3-year deal, or a 3+1 deal, but I wouldn’t go 4 guaranteed. Soriano, also 30, will probably age better but perform worse (i.e. he still be athletic enough to play solid D – in the outfield, not at 2B, where Lee will likely to continue to get bigger and lose range).

    I wouldn’t really go after Soriano, not with the team unity issues he caused last year in Texas.

    Now what about our 2 OF’ers in question? What can we expect from Roberts & Giles?

    Roberts’ lat 3 years:

    2004: .256/.330/.442 (w/ Boston)
    2004: .253/.340/.356 (w/ LAD)
    2005: .275/.356/.428
    2006: .306/.376/.412

    Giles’ last 3 years:

    2004: .284/.374/.475
    2005: .301/.423/.483
    2006: .272/.383/.394

    So what can we reasonably expect from each player in 2007 and beyond? Giles has a history of posting .400+ OBP and where this is Roberts career year…

    I do expect both players to decline, but I expect Giles to a bounce-back year (albeit to bounce back to slightly below is 2005 campaign numbers).

    2007 predicitions:

    Roberts:115 games, .280/.350/.400
    Giles: 150 games, .285/.390/.470

    Now keep in mind that this is Roberts’ contract year. Players routinely have HUGE years right before they go into free agency. It’s a fact. Now also keep in mind that Roberts is only 1 year younger than Giles. And Roberts has played in 107 games in 2003, 113 in ‘04, and 115 in ‘05. Do we really expect him to hold up enough for us to sign him to a long-term contract (it will probably take a 3 year deal to get him signed)?

  30. Posted August 23, 2006 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    Good reminder on Ensberg. I think he’ll be available this offseason as well and I think they’d buy on Kottaras…

  31. Posted August 23, 2006 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Basebal Prospectus’

    STAT OF THE DAY

    Top 5 NL Team Defenses, by Defensive Efficiency

    Team, DEF_EFF

    San Diego Padres, .716
    New York Mets, .710
    Chicago Cubs, .709
    San Francisco Giants, .709
    St. Louis Cardinals, .708

  32. Clayton
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    Not to exhume dead third basemen, but I’d like to know what that stat was before the booting of Vincenzo – did we have wider lead or pretty much the same?

  33. Coronado Mike
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Steve re:13…I think you are overrating Greene’s defensive ability…all of the numbers suggest he is Chris Gomez with flair! We have seen what he can do offensively. Remember, he is not “young”…he is older than Sean Burroughs.

    I have no doubt we will get a legit 3b in here next season…my best guess is either Ensberg or Crede, both of whom will be available at the end of the season.

  34. Posted August 23, 2006 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    C Mike, I seriously doubt Crede will be available, all the talk out of Chi-town is that Fields will switch to LF and Crede will be re-signed.

  35. Ben B.
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    Re 24 Steve: Both Soriano and Lee are having career years, Soriano especially. Soriano’s previous high for OBP was .338, and last year it was .309. Lee has bounced around a bit, but last year his was .324. Petco Park definitely does play large, though certainly not as much this year, and it has helped our pitchers a ton, so it stands to reason that the opposing team is being affected by it as well. It’s not just Giles, Klesko, and Nevin aging (though they are). And finally, I would think we’d have to give these guys a 5 year deal, at the end of which they’ll be 35. There is no way either of these guys will be worth that kind of money at that point in their careers.

    As for Khalil… I have some hope for Greene still. He had an increased walk rate earlier this year, which offers some hope. Before he was injured he was 5th among NL shortstops in VORP, so I don’t think he is a liability even if he continues putting up these type of numbers.

    And I would love to see Ensberg on the Padres.

  36. LaMar
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 2:44 pm | Permalink

    Regarding Khalil, I was listening to Alderson on XX today. Everytime I’ve heard SA talk about Khalil, I never get the impression he is real high on KG. Today was no exception. But, I seem to remember an article, maybe even here, (if not in the UT or ESPN) that said you have to look at the first 3 years of a shortstop’s offensive production as a learning curve. Most of the good ones, Tejeda comes to mind, and others historically, have big years in their 4th, 5th and 6th years in the majors. But most have been unimpressive offensively in their first 3 years.

  37. Posted August 23, 2006 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Interesting stuff LaMar (the article), I’ve read SA the same way.

  38. LaMar
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

    I just tried to search for the article, but didn’t have any luck. My recollection is that there was speculation that the difficulty of playing shortstop in the majors divides the defensive ability from the offensive production, but after the shortstop reaches a comfort level defensively, his production goes up. I remember Ozzie Smith was another player for which a sample was provided that supported the 3 year rule.

  39. LynchMob
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Julio Franco’s one of my heros also … http://tinyurl.com/rp7g8 … because he’s older than me (by 2 months) :-)

  40. krs1
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    LaMar – I think you’re right on. When I got to meet Sandy Alderson last season I asked him what he thought about Khalil Greene, all he said was… “I don’t the kid is real smart”. That’s all he said and that’s all I needed to hear to know what he thought.

  41. Anthony
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

    During the BPro event I think Sandy mentioned something along the lines of hoping Merv could get Greene straightened out. I also got the impression he was losing patience with Khalil.

    Last night on ESPN they mentioned that Jamie Moyer’s first start was against Steve Carlton and the Phillies in 1986. According to Retrosheet, Steve Carlton’s first start was in 1965. Julio Franco was 7 years old at the time. He’s the last player who debuted when I was still in high school, which means he’s ancient.

  42. Posted August 23, 2006 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    From the Fielding Bible:

    Greene is a very good defender despite having only average range and arm for the position. He has superb instincts, always positions himself well and has a quick release that makes up for his lack of arm strength. He is also very smooth turning double plays. His 2004 rating (+4) is probaby closer to his true talent level than 2005’s. And take a look at that home/road splie (-15 at home, +1 on the road). There may be park effects involved that we don’t yet understand.

  43. Posted August 23, 2006 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Steve,

    Why would you rather have Roberts’ bat than Cameron’s? Cameron has out-hit Roberts this year .368 to .354 (wOBA).

  44. LynchMob
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

    Richard … Lance has claimed that you will be posting the next Top 100 over at your blog … true? GO FOR IT!!!

  45. LynchMob
    Posted August 23, 2006 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    DavidB posted this over at pdxbeavers.com …

    They announced the Arizona Fall League rosters today. Players from the Padres organization that will be playing on the Peoria team are:

    Jonathon Ellis, p (Mobile)
    John Hudgins, p (Beavs)
    Colt Morton, c (Mobile)
    Chase Headley, inf (Lake Elsinore)
    Vince Sinisi, of (Mobile)

    The Padres are also slotted to contribute one more infielder to be determined.

    http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/about/page.jsp?ymd=20060821&content_id=121035&vkey=about_l119&fext=.jsp&sid=l119