Piazza Comes to San Diego
Mon, Jan 30, 2006
by Geoff Young
The Padres have signed catcher Mike Piazza. The Friars’ willingness to let him catch reportedly played a key role in Piazza’s decision to choose San Diego over his hometown of Philadelphia.
On the one hand, the Padres are at least five years late to the Piazza train. On the other hand, this limits the amount of time Todd Greene, Pete LaForest, Doug Mirabelli, David Ross, Chris Cannizzaro, Gene Tenace, and Terry Kennedy will have to get behind the dish. I’m not doing cartwheels over the signing, but the price is right. For a minimal investment, the catching situation has been upgraded from bleak to blah.
If we could turn back the clock to 1997, the Padres would have one heck of a team right now:
Mike Piazza .362/.431/.638, 186 OPS+, 40 HR
Ryan Klesko .261/.334/.490, 111 OPS+, 24 HR
Eric Young .280/.359/.397, 87 OPS+, 45 SB
Vinny Castilla .304/.356/.547, 114 OPS+, 40 HR
Brian Giles .268/.368/.459, 112 OPS+, 17 HR
Mike Cameron .259/.356/.433, 109 OPS+, 14 HR, 23 SB
Doug Brocail 78 IP, 3.23 ERA, 142 ERA+
Shawn Estes 201 IP, 3.18 ERA, 130 ERA+
Trevor Hoffman 81.1 IP, 2.25 ERA, 175 ERA+
Chan Ho Park 192 IP, 3.38 ERA, 115 ERA+
Woody Williams 194.2 IP, 4.35 ERA, 106 ERA+
I’m sure Khalil Greene and Jake Peavy were destroying their high school competition as well.
Other Reaction
- Baseball Musings. David Pinto isn’t enthusiastic: “I just don’t see where it makes much sense for Piazza or the Padres.”
- Talking Baseball. Neither is Ben Kabak: “While the Padres and their fans may finally have the star they want to boost their lineup in Mike Piazza, this future Hall of Famer’s glow won’t be too bright in San Diego.”
- 6-4-2. Add Rob McMillin to the ranks of those unimpressed: “This is a poor signing to defend.”
Tough crowd. Personally I don’t think it’s too difficult to defend a 1-year, $2M deal in this day and age. Piazza is cheaper than Ryan Franklin and Ramon Ortiz, to name two actual poor signings. The guess here is that Piazza will put up numbers similar to what Ramon Hernandez posted last year (.290/.322/.450, 12 HR) with maybe less batting average and more power. Besides, it’s not like the Padres gave away Mark Loretta to get the guy.
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January 30, 2006 at 8:59 am
Oh, don’t get me wrong: For $2 million, I like the signing. But, Geoff, as as you said, if you could turn back the clock to 1997, this team is much better. I wonder if it’s enough for the Padres to keep pace with the Dodgers this season.
January 30, 2006 at 9:02 am
I love the signing because a mix of Piazza/Mirabelli behind the plate would be somewhat respectable, and if it doesnt work out then he’s gone at the end of the year.
If you look at the 99/2000 stats this padres team is even better.
January 30, 2006 at 9:23 am
So, who do you think we’ll get for Piazza at the deadline? I sure hope he stays healthy until then. Just pray KT doesn’t pull a Ray Lankford type deal for Piazza (prospects, prospects, prospects….).
January 30, 2006 at 10:04 am
I think its kinda cool because Mike is always a threat at the plate. No matter what his stats, pitchers are going to be weary of Big Mike with a bat in his hands. Sure gonna scare more pitchers then Marybelly, or whatever his name is. Might give Giles some protection as well.
So anybody got a projected lineup?
I would try but I can’t remember who replaced Boroughs, Lorreta, Poopy (I no block el plato), Blaw, or the others. Hell, the only guy I’m sure of is the one guy we needed to dump the most, the 9 million dollar SCUBA fan.
Is Bochy still the manager?
BTW, not a golf fan, but this number caught my eye, $975,000 large for the winner. Nice work if you can get it.
Guess I’ll get back to my ditch.
January 30, 2006 at 10:13 am
I’m on board with the signing. What the heck, right? Mirabelli’s not an everyday catcher.
It is a little alarming that the Pads’ top two catchers average 36 years old. Then again, I’m 35 and feel pretty good about myself. I was reading Olney’s blog today, and Buster said Piazza has a chip the size of New York City on his shoulder. Sounds good to me.
Who do you guys think the Pads dump off the 40-man? I’m thinking DRoss goes bye bye.
January 30, 2006 at 10:15 am
Oops, in all this crazy off-season hijinx, I think KandS forgot to got a second baseman. Gees, what an embarassing oversight.
Kidding aside, who is playing second for the Pads? Assuming he will bat second as well.
January 30, 2006 at 10:17 am
Padre Mike –
Hopefully, Jowh Barfield will be at second, not the newly signed Mark Bellhorn.
January 30, 2006 at 10:18 am
oops — Josh not “Jowh.”
January 30, 2006 at 10:38 am
For that amount of money, I’m game for Piazza.
I don’t like, however, the quote about his playing time at C. As much as he wants? Does that term go into the contract? If he doesn’t hit, he has no value at C for the Padres.
I don’t think he’ll (should) start at C for more than 81 games. The other 15-18 games for interleague and probably 15 more at 1B against lefty (his split last year was not great, higher BA and OBP, lower SLG against lefty).
Plus, his recent 3-year post All-Star stats are horrific. The platoon will, hopefully, keep him fresh and out of injury for the whole season.
Better news: February is around the corner.
January 30, 2006 at 10:42 am
Its going to be an interesting clubhouse this year. Don’t see a real leader in there. Maybe Giles, or Hoffman.
Of course, the buring question I have about Mike is will he go in the Hall as a Padre?
January 30, 2006 at 11:42 am
A break from a blog I read:
CarrollBlog 1.29
Listening to a Tom Waits cd today, I remembered a story someone told me years ago. They were in London on a back street near Covent Garden. Looking up, they saw Waits standing in a doorway smoking a cigarette. He was instantly recognizable with that head of broccoli- hair, alligator shoes, and wearing a cheap black suit. This guy is a big fan of Waits but who isn’t? As he approached, he racked his brain for something cool to say to THE MAN. But when he got there, all he could come up with was a line from an early Waits song: “Nighthawks at the Diner.” Waits nodded slowly and said right back “Emma’s forty-niner,” the next line of the song. When the guy had passed, the singer called out to him. Turning, he saw Waits grinning broadly now and he said to my friend, “Hey, thanks.”
And now back to the regularly scheduled show…
January 30, 2006 at 11:46 am
It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Assuming the Pads keep 11 pitchers (who knows, they may need 12), the position player locks are :
1. Dave Roberts
2. Mike Cameron
3. Brian Giles
4. Vinny Castilla
5. Khalil Greene
6. Bellhorn (bear with me, switch hitter, leadoff candidate should Roberts go down or get traded)
7. Klesko
8. Piazza
9. Mirabelli
10. Blum
11. Adrian Gonzales (Klesko’s brick hands make this essential)
12. Barfield (if he wins job in Peoria, which HE WILL)
13. Eric Young
14. Sledge (power lefty bat off bench is essential, yes?)
This leaves Ben Johnson in AAA (a real shame)again, along with Bobby Hill. So your backup outfielders are Sledge and Young, which is fine, since our starting outfield is pretty studly defensively speaking. If they go with 12 pitchers, who goes down? Adrian Gonzalez (not likely)? Young? Could someone like McAnulty displace both Gonzalez and Sledge with a great spring (he has pop and is a pretty good glove at 1B)? I think their pitching depth is going to have a lot to do with whether Barfield is our starting 2B. I can’t really see how 3 catchers fits in here (or Chan Ho, for that matter).
January 30, 2006 at 1:12 pm
Cool, isn’t Tom Waits from Imperial Beach?
Hate to see Johnson in AAA, he “murders” the ball, a when he hits it. Of course, he also murdered the ball when it was hit to him in right field during the playffs.
BTW, After the SB, only March Madness (which I could care less about) stands in the way of another baseball season.
Now my typical approach is to completely ignore Spring Training and only start paying attention on opening day. Occasional peaks at Ducks et al are allowed.
January 30, 2006 at 2:28 pm
I’m digging the $2million signing, but the mutual option is way to high. Let’s hope we don’t have to pay that.
Also, if the Padres knew they were going to have a decent chance of signing Piazza (or even Molina), why did we trade Loretta for Mirabelli? Don’t you think we could have at LEAST gotten an arm or something out of the deal? I mean that trade looks horrible.
Also, is KT just stupid or is it me? In the UT, he said “I am excited. Mike gives us a right-handed power threat in the middle of the lineup. His strength (a right-handed pull hitter) plays well to Petco Park.” I mean has the guy even heard of park factors? For right handers, Petco has a factor of around 51, which means it reduces home runs in half. For lefties, it’s around 70 something. That means that being a right-handed pull hitter will actually HURT Piazza. I mean we have a GM who is just stupid.
Oh, and to add on, Towers says “We have ample people who could hit in the Nos. 5 and 6 spots with Vinny Castilla and Mike Cameron.” Hitting Castilla in the #5 hole is like batting Giles last - it’s retarded. I just don’t trust Kevin Towers anymore. He makes absolutely 0 sense.
January 30, 2006 at 4:16 pm
Mike,
Not to defend KT, but a couple of responses to your post. I think it’s pretty clear that no one considered that Piazza would be available for what he is. I mean, it’s pretty ridiculous that you have middle relievers out there getting huge contracts, but a gold glove catcher like Molina can’t even get an equitable multi-year deal. This current situation is surprising to EVERYONE.
Regarding righties at Petco. We should all remember that about half the right handed at-bats in Petco have been Padres righties (Nevin, Nady, Randa, Ramon). Can you name me a decent power hitting righty on our team since moving to Petco? That will tend to sway the “Park factor” a bit.
Cameron is a great alternative in the 5 or 6 spot, depending on who’s pitching for the opposing team. I’d agree Castilla in the 5 hole is not ideal, but I can see KT’s reasoning. You may want to have Cameron hitting after Castilla to offer a little protection (a la Greg Vaughn in 98).
Anyway, finally, I tend to think the Loretta thing was not as much related to catching as it was Hoffman’s deal and Alderson’s influence. Sandy is a proponent of letting your young players who’ve succeeded in the minors have a chance without splitting time. There is absolutely nothing left for Josh Barfield to prove in Portland. This, btw, is going to be an issue for Bochy, unless he changes his ways. I’d bet 2 to 1 that we see him running Mark Bellhorn out there ahead of Barfield unless explicitly instructed otherwise.
January 30, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Just to add to Jessemundo’s remarks, I really think the sound bites/quotes you see from Towers in various publications are just that, sound bites. If you’ve ever heard him speak in person, he’s much more candid. I honestly think if you had the chance to ask him about Castilla and put him on the spot about the likelihood of Vinny sucking wind versus the likelihood he produces at a high level, he’d fess up to the former being more likely. But that’s not the sort of thing you necessarily want to have printed in the newspaper or online.
January 30, 2006 at 6:01 pm
Tom Waits used to work at Napoleone’s Pizza House in National City:
http://www.keeslau.com/TomWait.....leones.htm
He also has a song called “San Diego Serenade” on the _Heart_of_Saturday_Night_ album which is a slow, piano-driven ballad. I enjoy playing it on guitar every now and then.
January 30, 2006 at 6:06 pm
Mike:
The buyout is 750,000. So, realistically, we either trade him or pay him somewhere between 2-2.75 million dollars for one year (depending on the performance-based incentives).
Good signing. And, I agree, it makes the Loretta deal look atrocious. We need more than one more pitcher, becaused Boomer is getting old. And that’s if we do get him.
January 30, 2006 at 7:25 pm
I think people are underselling Mike Piazza. I was checking some of his splits and was surprised at the significant difference between his stats when catching as opposed to 1b/dh/ph. When catching, his stats are significantly higher. It could be that he is just much more comfortable behind the plate and it is reflected in his hitting. Or, it could be just that he is getting old(but 37 dont seem so old to me). I say that Piazza’s career worst year was still better than the 2005 that Hernandez had for us. I dont think he will decline from last year. This is a first ballot hall of fame catcher with a career obp of .382. I doubt seriously we will see an increase from the 19 homers but surely he wont repeat that .326 obp.
I just absolutely love this signing.
Aloha
January 30, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Jessemundo,
Petco does offer a closish left field corner, but is murder to guys like Nevin whose power is right-center…
Geoff, I LOVED the summary paragraph of analysis. Perfect! Call it .275/.330/.450 w/ 15 HR in 400ish AB…
This is another NICE sign that allows Kottaras to continue to develop without blocking him.
It is obvious that the Padres have 2007 in mind as they prepare for 2006 (and that’s a good thing).
January 30, 2006 at 9:39 pm
Aloha, Hank! Good to see you checkin’ in!
37 years old doesn’t seem old to me either … but the reality is that it IS old in baseball-years … and I’d bet it’s RARE for a 37-year-old player to NOT decline … Johnny Bench didn’t even make it to 36 … WOW, I’d forgotten Fisk played ’till he was 45, and check out his Age 37 year!!! (http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/fiskca01.shtml) … 37 HRs + 107 RsBI + 17 SBs!!! (but the .238 BA and .320 OPB show his age???) … Gary Carter really faded after 33 … Yogi was done after 36 … kinda cool that Piazza’s most “Similar Batter” is A-Rod!!! (http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/piazzmi01.shtml) …
At this point, I’d think that .350/.450 is very optimistic … but worth the $2M crap shoot …
January 31, 2006 at 5:09 am
Holy spam, Batman!
Piazza’s got power to all fields — I wonder if the fences moving in in LCF will help him out a little.
I was listening to a NY talkradio show yesterday, they were talking about the signing. They love Piazza, but were remarking about how “terrible” the lineup is. Got me a little down — I don’t think it’s that bad. Then again, I’m always the optimist.
The way I figure it, the new additions can’t be too bad. Castilla has got to be an upgrade over Randa; Piazza will be solid; Cameron’s really streaky, but he’s better than Nady and Sledge is a solid bat off the bench. I’m really hoping that Bellhorn is not the starting 2b.
On the D Wells front, by the way, the trade talks are on hold until the beginning of Spring Training. It turns out Theo wants to have a meeting with the big guy before they trade him.
January 31, 2006 at 7:42 am
Didi - I hope that your question about Piazza possible EVER going into the hall as a Padre is a joke?
#31 is Enshrined as a Met - not a Dodger, never a Padre - at least we (Mets fans) will finally have two players in the hall.
With that being said I wish all the Pad’s fans a great season.
January 31, 2006 at 7:45 am
Don’t forget the Marlins. Piazza could go into the Hall wearing teal.
January 31, 2006 at 9:17 am
Wells story from the Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/sports/b.....ll_spring/
January 31, 2006 at 10:03 am
Man, these spammers are getting really aggressive. Antisocial scumbags. I apologize for the recent intrusions. Usually I can stay on top of stuff pretty well. I’ll remove this one when I get home.
Nick, thanks for the Wells info. I still wouldn’t mind seeing him back here, but only if the Pads don’t give up anything of consequence.
And I remain very excited about 2007.
January 31, 2006 at 10:11 am
“Why Khalil Must Play 162″
AP - San Diego - May 8, 2006
With their starting shortstop again sidelined after a bad hop broken finger, Padres skipper Bruce Bochy brought his lineup card to the plate to the strains of “When I’m 64.” 2006 Padres season sponsors Geritol, Viagra, and Sansabelt were pleased to see the following lineup:
D. Roberts LF
Bellhorn 2B
Giles RF
Piazza C
Klesko 1B
Cameron CF
Castilla 3B
Blum SS
Williams P
Williams took the mound as rumors continued to swirl around the park that David Wells would soon join the team, bringing a needed veteran presence.
It was fortunate that the Padres had some outfield speed as they hustled to chase down a few balls that skipped thru the infield on 14 hops, not to mention the long gappers that continue to plague Woody. “Thank god for Petco,” lip-readers saw him mouth as another long drive bounced off the base of the wall in right-center.
But the Padres managed to cling to the lead and brought in ace closer Trevor Hoffman as the crowd swayed with lighters held high to his new theme “Time is On My Side.”
After another Padres win, Bochy heaped praise on the play of youngsters “Kid” Cameron and “Baby-Face” Blum, as well as the fresh legs of youthful defensive replacements Doug Mirabelli and Eric Young.
When asked about a possible call-up for Josh Barfield, off to a hot start in Portland, the skipper didn’t seem to recognize the name.
Asked the same question, GM Kevin Towers said Barfield needed more seasoning, and noted that the kid still lacked the jewelry of proven winners Bellhorn and Blum.
January 31, 2006 at 11:34 am
Holy cow, Batman. Spammers’ Alert.
I wonder how we can sign an address from a spammer on another spammer’s mailing list. That way they can attack each other.
Any ideas?
Go Padres!
January 31, 2006 at 11:42 am
I think Viagra notices are coming up here b/c we’re talking about the Padres’ lineup.
From now on, we should only speak of prospects.
Excellent article dprat. You should write for the AP.
My problem is that I’m searching for a reason to get excited about 2006. I keep coming back to the fact that every team in the division has a bunch of question marks — and that makes me feel a little better.
January 31, 2006 at 11:49 am
maybe all that viagra spam is somebody’s opinion on the new Padre lineup.
January 31, 2006 at 12:46 pm
Ha…ha…I like that thinking, PM.
But is it legal per the new anti-steroid regulations?
January 31, 2006 at 1:37 pm
The Piazza signing is terrible. As bad as I thought acquiring Castilla was, Towers outdid himself here.
I wish everyone would stop saying what a bargain he is. If someone is not good, if someone is hurting your ballclub, it doesn’t matter how cheap he is. I don’t care if they got him for $5 this season. He’s not good.
He’s a poor catcher defensively. At his peak, he was passable. But teams lived with that because his offense was great. Now he’s a below average hitter. His numbers last year were .251/.326/.452. They are going to get worse at Petco, and he’s a year older. He will never slug .450 again.
When you take into account all that, I’m not sure he is better that Mirabelli. Teams are going to steal all kinds of bases on Piazza in a park that is already suited to running.
I would rather have Loretta or just spend the $2 million on Randy Jones ribs. Or how about Leo Mazzone. Towers sometimes doess a good job with patchwork moves — like in the bullpen — but not with Castilla or Piazza.
January 31, 2006 at 2:45 pm
Thanks, Kevin, for the note. Always good to have a contrarian point of view. (It would be awfully boring if we all agreed on everything.)
I don’t think Piazza will hurt the ballclub but we shall see. At the very least, he should be better than David Ross.
January 31, 2006 at 3:13 pm
OT - I found this interesting … http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/ne.....;type=lgns … a look at how (perhaps) steriods (etc) has impacted the longevity of today’s veteran ballplayers …
January 31, 2006 at 3:23 pm
Kevin, we can take the same facts and come to differing conclusions, as I do.
I can agree with you that Mike Piazza is not a good defensive catcher when it comes to throwing out base stealers, but I would also add the following: (1) Ramon was not very good at throwing out runners either, so having Piazza back there for the same number of games could be expected to add about 20-30 SB; (2) Piazza is said to be a good handler of pitchers, like Ramon; and (3) Piazza is said to be a better blocker of bad pitches and the plate on close plays compared to Ramon - Ramon had 8 errors and 6 passed balls in 2005; Mike had 2 errors and 3 passed balls in similar innings, so subtract at least 9 bases gained on those numbers. The defensive difference shrinks when all factors are considered.
Offensively, he is simply not a below average hitter yet, despite the actual number decline. His OPS+ is still better than league average, and he finished 9th in OPS out of 28 catchers who had at least 300 PA, ahead of, guess who, Ramon Hernandez.
So, all things taken into account, I believe Piazza is a relative bargain at $2 million. Personally, I’d also rather have Piazza, Mirabelli, Barfield, Bellhorn on one year contracts plus $6.5 million to spare (which $ could be viewed as “used” to finance other deals like the Cameron trade or resigning Hoffman or Giles), instead of Hernandez on a multi-year deal, Ross, Loretta, and Damian Jackson. But that’s just me.
January 31, 2006 at 4:05 pm
Good work, TF. I can dig Kevin’s frustration, but I think it’s somewhat misplaced with regards to Piazza. I looked at OPS+ and EQA, he was above average on both. I think with judicious use (lots of platooning with Mirabelli, DH, occasional 1B starts), he should help the team.
January 31, 2006 at 7:16 pm
On the idea that Piazza’s power numbers will dip with the move to San Diego, does anyone know Shea’s park factor for last year vis a vis Petco’s? I bet they’re closer than one may think. I think Piazza puts up similar numbers to last year, if not better given the rather large chip on his shoulder and the fact that he played much of the past two seasons with a wrist injury. If he does put up similar numbers to last year then, as the ESPN write-up notes, he would have led the team in HRs. Which would be a significant addition of power for 2-2.5 million.
With the addition of Cameron over Roberts, that increase should be even more pronounced. I’m not saying we are going to be the 27 Yankees, but we should be much better offensively than last year.
February 1, 2006 at 12:43 am
Don’t know if anyone here has ESPN Insider, but here is Rob Neyer’s take:
• Maybe somebody can explain Mike Piazza and the Padres to me. At one time, Piazza was a premier hitter, both for power and average. From 1993 through 2001, Piazza batted .326 and averaged 34 home runs per season. Now, though, about all that’s left is the power. So the Padres, who play in the only ballpark that’s tougher on power hitters than Shea Stadium, think Piazza will help them? Just as weird: Piazza supposedly will catch 90-100 games … even though he can’t throw, and that big ballpark is well-suited to the running game? All things considered, I think I’d rather give the regular job behind the plate to Doug Mirabelli.
February 1, 2006 at 12:45 am
About Piazza: Smart reasoning by The Fathers. Well researched. (Wanna be the new GM? I wanted to boot KT after the Loretta, B-Law and Vinny trades… although getting Cam and Piazza redeemed him somewhat.)
To answer Matthew, Shea is a pretty average MLB park for H/HR/RS. Here is a handy link to ESPN’s park factor chart: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
Anyway, astute Padre Mike asked about a revised ‘06 lineup to include Piazza; I’d like to offer one here:
- Roberts LF
- Barfield 2B (tough spot for a rookie, but I say give him the chance for ROTY)
- Giles RF (obviously)
- Piazza C (love that power, for 81 games anyway)
- Klesko 1B (hopefully with plenty of AB by Gonz. & McAnulty)
- Cameron CF
- Castilla 3B (He’ll be out half the year with knee probs, so Blum here a lot)
- Khalil SS
- Pitcher
I sure like the potential of our young bench this year. (Hopefully Bochy won’t have Barfield warming it all season.)
I certainly wouldn’t put Bellhorn batting second (as in dprat’s tongue-in-cheek lineup); too slow and way too many Ks. (Loretta was the quintessential #2 batter, with a great glove. KT, what were you thinking?!)
February 1, 2006 at 6:52 am
Here’s one example of why I don’t worry too much about the running game:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxe.....LO2000.htm
The Marlins stole 10 bases off Stan Spencer and Wiki Gonzalez that night but lost, 6-2. I know this is anectodal, but I don’t believe that throwing ability is nearly as important a skill for a catcher today as it was 20 years ago.
Piazza is here to handle the pitching staff and provide a little offense. He should be able to do both, at minimal cost.
February 1, 2006 at 7:05 am
Who’s going to run on Piazza, anyway?
Most Giants can remember hunting mastodon, not that we’re any younger. Let Bonds, Alou, Vizcaino, and Vizquel run. They’re more likely to end up on the DL.
The Dodgers have more of a running attack, but it’s mainly Lofton and Furcal. Like the Giants, we should be encouraging Drew and Nomar to run.
Use Piazza when Peavy, Young, Wells (please) are pitching. They limit baserunners on their own. Estes has a good pick-off move, although I’d rather he never start a single game. If Bochy is careful with Piazza, the arm won’t be much of an issue.
February 1, 2006 at 1:08 pm
Travis Nelson has a thoughtful piece on the Piazza acquisition as part of his “Boy of Summer” series here at All-Baseball.com:
http://www.all-baseball.com/archives/021723.html